Newbie here - buying a C22 tomorrow...

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OutnBacker
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Newbie here - buying a C22 tomorrow...

Post by OutnBacker »

Could use some advice in the very near future, I suspect, since I'll be getting only one mast raising tutorial and have never owned a boat like this before. I live in Everett, WA. and would welcome any contacts that might be able to throw me a line. The boat is in Wenatchee so I won't have it home til saturday afternoon, assuming my puny Jeep Cherokee brakes don't melt on the way down the pass...

Thanks,
John
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Post by N41EF »

Welcome to the crew! I know there are several members here from the WA/Seattle area, you'll be fine.

Take lots of pictures when you first pull up to hook up. You'll want a before picture so that once you've made it YOURS.

And, people here will hound you for pictures....
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EmergencyExit
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Post by EmergencyExit »

Welcome aboard ! Our own CaptainScott hails from Everett so you'll have plenty of willing help nearby !
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Post by OutnBacker »

Thanks. I've been in touch with a sailing club here in Everett. Pretty good folks who will be willing to help. Capt. Scott might even know them. The boat is a '76 and is a bit rough around the edges, but it is a desert boat and has only been in salt water once - supposedly. 2010 Tohatsu 4-stroke extra long, on a somewhat shaky trailer. Keel pivot replaced in 2005 and the cable looks newer as well. I looked thru the inspection port and the bolts and cap look nice. Sloppy silicone work around the portlights. The usual cracks in the gelcoat at all the usual places, but the deck is solid - probably due to the dry climate history. Plenty of sun bleaching. Tiller has been modified to swivel up, so no bruised shins. Normal nicks and gouges all over. Toe rail and rub rail are undisturbed. It'd be nice if I could say it is mint, but it's not very much money so I'm doin' it.

John
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Post by OutnBacker »

Okay, I've got it home. I continue to be amazed at the reliability of those old Jeep Cherokees. No overheating on the pass and the brakes were adequate coming down the grade. But I digress...

The inspection went well generally, but the trailer bearings will definitetly need to be replaced. For a while I though t I might just head for home and forget it but the seller did some running around to find zirc fittings and was very accomodating in raising the mast - something I don't want to try alone just yet. Compared to my smaller boat, it was alot of fuss using the boom and having no bridles. Good thing there were three of us.

The zirc fittings turned out to be too big and the threads in the off-brand, ancient "buddies" were stripped out. We managed to get grease into the bearings by just snapping the zirc into the gun and filling up the hub, then screwing in a screw to seal them. MacGuyver Rules. We stopped to check for heat but it stayed good for the 135 mile trip.

So, it will rest easy next to my shop while I plan on a bridle setup and a dedicated gin pole. I'll be looking for answers as to the dimensions for the bridles, if there are any to be known. Any ideas on that? I have the original manual that is the only known document extant that survived the '70's - complete with cartoon drawings and light on details. Reminds me of that Volkswagen repair manual by Muir. Hippies loved it.

I like the idea of a hinged step. I had one on a smaller boat and it was alot easier than having to look over my shoulder to make sure nothing was slipping - especially with the cantilever over the stern rail.
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Post by N41EF »

"how to keep your VW alive"? excellent book!

There is a doccuments tab on the front page here, look for a drawing of the briddles, yes it looks cartoonish but, it is accurate. I used a 2x4 with 2 nails in it spaced for the briddles. With the briddles, I use 4 nylon ratchet straps, and the original boom. One strap from each side near the end of the boom, and one strap from each side up the mast 5 feet or so to the halyard clip thing. I use the traveler pully set up connected to the forward stay run through eye at the top of the mast. After five or six practice errections in the drive way, I can raise the mast by myself in 45 minutes once I get to the lake.

My single axel trailer bearings had gone bad, the has corrossion spots and felt crunchy. Most boat stors stock bearings with seals, mine were not standard and I got them from an old school auto parts place. I also replaced the bearing buddies.

I also replaced the auto tires on my trailer with Goodyear Marathon trailer tires, Sears had them at the best price near me. I lifted the boat off the trailer when I did the paint and keel bracket to weigh the trailer, and boat and trailer to verify the load range, and that my boat is under the weight requiring brakes in my state.

Search is your friend, many of us have rebuilt boats from almost scratch. If you have questions ask, there is an incredible knowledge base here.
1979 C22 S/V Client Meeting
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Post by OutnBacker »

hmmm.... not seeing any tabs by that title. Are you referring to the Association site? There is a manual there, but it shows only a vague illustration and no dimensions for making up a set of bridles.

That's the book. I learned to extract my 67 bus engine in 11 minutes with that .

I have an e-mail in to Capt Scott, but he's probably out on Puget Sound today. I can see Port Gardner Bay from my front window and it looks too good to be home.

I'm finding two schools of thought on the raising thing: One: use the boom. Two: make a dedicated and simple gin pole. Either way, I need bridles. And some instruction - preferably, on deck.
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Post by Capt. Bondo »

Interesting how many car guys also like fixing old Chrysler sail boats.
Ya, I pull the motor out of my VW KG in about 15 minuites.
Personally I use the boom for steping the mast but I'm starting to rethink that ...I could keep the main sail stored on the boom while traveling, by using a gin pole, saving set-up time, but another item to carry...

Welcome aboard!
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You can go to a Zen Master or you can go Sailing, either way you end up in about the same place..... a Happy Place
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Post by N41EF »

I thought about a gin pole, a 2x4 8 feet. The deep ramp I use has a huge courtasy dock, so I launch and motor to the dock, then hang the main and jib and route the lines and such. I also use that time to explain to passangers how the boat works, how to change the jib for a tack, how to hoist and drop sails. My instructions to the wife if I go overboard is to drop the sails and put the rudder hard over, and I'll swim to it.

Doccuments are here:

http://www.captainscottsailing.com/php/ ... ocList.php

And can be accessed though here:

http://www.chryslersailors.com/#nogo2
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Post by OutnBacker »

Yah! Choost remoof zeh reeah krossmembah, loosen deh foah boltz, den poosh deh Bus foahwertz, und ach du Liebe!, das moter sitz an dee chack!

N41EF,

Thanks for the links. I didn't know he had a site. I'll go take a look.

...okay, now that's what I call a drawing. So, after taking a good clear look, it appears that there are no particular dimensions for the lines that make up the bridles. The jib sheets are just tied to the approx midpoint of the bridles, then each end is made fast to the top of the gin pole or boom and to the teenie little eye strap on the mast. Not too sure about that eye strap business, but if that's the way it's done, so be it.
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Post by N41EF »

I don't see the briddle drawing posted on scott's site, but the drawing I used says 24 3/4 eye to eye is critical. I think it has to do with the height above the toe rail where the mast pivots. I have PDF and instructions, I can email them if you wish.
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Post by OutnBacker »

N41EF wrote:I don't see the briddle drawing posted on scott's site, but the drawing I used says 24 3/4 eye to eye is critical. I think it has to do with the height above the toe rail where the mast pivots. I have PDF and instructions, I can email them if you wish.
I see. Well that makes more sense than just winging it with a piece of equipment that has the potential of stoving in some guy's head. I'll PM you...
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Post by CaptainScott »

Hi John!
Got your emails!

Welcome to the forum!

I'm currently in Victoria BC on Destiny!
Found Internet here at the doc and am surfing the web a bit!

I look forward to meeting you and am more than happy to help you out.
I have bridals and a dedicated gin pole you are welcome to see and copy.


Ok, I'm back to sitting in the sun and staring at the Empress hotel! We have front row dock space!

Scott
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Post by OutnBacker »

Outstanding! Looking forward to meeting you.

Thanks,

John

CaptainScott wrote:Hi John!
Got your emails!

Welcome to the forum!

I'm currently in Victoria BC on Destiny!
Found Internet here at the doc and am surfing the web a bit!

I look forward to meeting you and am more than happy to help you out.
I have bridals and a dedicated gin pole you are welcome to see and copy.


Ok, I'm back to sitting in the sun and staring at the Empress hotel! We have front row dock space!

Scott
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Post by OutnBacker »

Well, I managed to raise the mast solo without scaring the neighbors or causing any collateral damage. I made bridles according to the drawing supplied by Chuck. Thanks. They worked well. I used the boom but will make up a dedicated gin pole from a clear fir 2X4.

One thing that concerns me is launching. Do C-22's require a tongue extension? I have a 96 Jeep Cherokee. Rugged enough on its own, but I'm concerned about two things: 1) getting water in the differential thru the vent hole in the top of the pumkin, and 2) adding tremendously to the tongue weight. The latter concern is because these vehicles are unibody types, so they don't have a box frame underneath like a pickup. The hitch is welded to the stiffeners, which immitate the frame but are just box sheet metal tubes that run along the length of the under body.

The weld is substantial, but I wonder because there is already alot of tongue weight just because it is a sailboat (no big outb'd on the transom).

Any thoughts?
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Post by N41EF »

Congrats on raising the mast. My daughter calls the two we did without briddles as near-death experiences.

My trailer has a toung extension, there is a pin to pull and it slides forward about 4 feet. The lake I go to has an "old" ramp that is steep, and two new one that are not. I could launch from the steep one without an extension, but not the new ramps.

Depending on your trailer, if it has a drop axle, you might not need it. Someone here explained how the did an extension, was pretty easy, bolt on or weld on.

I pulled with a Land Rover Discovery 2, no issues, and the 4wd low range made it easy to crawl back up the ramp when loaded. My new tow vehicle is a Mercedes ML 320 Bluetec, has almost twice the tourque so I don't think it will have issues.

If you are at all concerned, two quarts of rear end lube are cheap. I'd drain and fill after the first couple of launches to check it out.
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Post by OutnBacker »

I just spent some time with Capt. Scott today at the marina and here at the house. I got a good look at the gin pole he made up, and talked about a tongue extension. I made one for my smaller 18footer, so I'll probably do the same with this boat, but heavier duty. It'll just slide into my Jeep reciever and have a ball at the other end - 6ft back.

The Jeep has the High Output in-line 6, so power and 4 wheel drive is not a question. I just don't like dipping the Jeep in the water til it comes in the rear cargo area, which it will, as well as the dif.

Where we launch, the water can be salty or somewhat fresh, being a waterfront rivermouth. If the tides are incoming, it's salty. So far, at 200,000 miles, the Jeep remains almost pristine and strong. I'd like to keep it that way, and try to outrun some of those old Volvos. I think it will. Many have already. I just can't bear to gat salt water all thru it.

The mast raisng was actually quite easy, thanks to you. Since then, I've had it up and down several times.
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