new owner, "new" boat, what shaft length outboard

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Reality
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new owner, "new" boat, what shaft length outboard

Post by Reality »

A week ago I bought a C-22 locally and am looking forward to becoming a beginner sailer next year. Boat came without an outboard, so I'm looking to pick one up over winter. Boat will be slipped in northern Green Bay and occasionally sailed into Lake Michigan once I get some experience/skills. With the weather and size of "pond", I'm thinking a 9.9HP? What's the best shaft length (20 or 25) and why? Is it necessary to have an outboard with alternator to charge battery? I expect to do mostly daylight sailing and can recharge battery at the slip via shore power. Outboard will hang on a Garelick motor mount with 11 inches of vertical travel and 115# capacity. All advise welcome. thanks
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OutnBacker
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Post by OutnBacker »

My past C-22 had a Tohatsu 6hp Sail-Pro. My current C-20 has an 8hp Evinrude Yacht-Twin. Both have the extra long 25inch shaft for sailboats. For most sailboat applications of 20 feet to, say, 26feet, with boats that have no inboard engine, a 25 inch shaft is preferable.

The 6hp was plenty of motor, even for the C-22. The 8hp on the C-20 gets me very little in increased speed, but uses alot more gas because it is a two banger. A 9.9hp will certainly do the job, but at that rating they can start to get heavy for handling. Alot of 9.9's weigh as much as a 15hp because they often have the same heads. Check it out.

Personally, I think the Tohatsu Sail Pro is as brilliant a design as can be. Light, powerful, very quiet, and economical. I don't think my C-22 would have sold so fast with any other motor.

A standard long shaft (20inch) on a sailboat of that size will not be long enough to keep the water intake and prop in the water when the boat is under power because of the porpoising action of a displacement hull in waves. Even a 25inch shaft will come out in certain conditions.

When you select your motor candidate, mount it on the Garelick and push it down to the lowest setting. The cavitation plate should stop below the bottom of the transom or at least at the bottom edge of the boot strap stripe. You want the business end of the motor to be well buried in the water.

If you mount a standard 20 inch motor low enough to compensate, you run the risk of swamping the powerhead.

On my currnet C-20, the old Evinrude has the charging lead for the battery, as did the nearly new Tohatsu. This is a great feature, but the charge rate is low because of the small unit. It ain't no 350 Chev with a big Delco alternator. If you run all sorts of stuff, like a high amp stereo, you can outrun your battery charging ability. A decent on-board trickle charger from shore is a good back-up. Install a battery meter so you can monitor the state.

Keep in touch.
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
Reality
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Post by Reality »

Thanks for the good info. I'd looked at the 6hp 25" Tohatsu online, but wasn't sure if it would have enough power. But I'm mostly looking for a motor that provides safety, not speed, so probably a good choice. I assume it's best to have the prop out of the water while sailing? Would this require tilting up a 25" shaft? thanks again
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OutnBacker
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Post by OutnBacker »

It's best to lift the prop while sailing. I will often leave the motor down while I'm sailing down the river to the bay, about 3/4 mile, just because of the traffic. But I raise it as soon as I clear the marker. With the Garelick, you can easily lift the entire motor out and then tilt it nearly horizontal (assuming the Tohatsu with its smaller powerhead). You will likely have to turn the motor to get it to clear the aft rail.
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
windnutlarry
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Location: Green Bay, WI

C22 outboard

Post by windnutlarry »

I have a 9.9 Yamaha long shaft 2-stroke on my '78 pop-top, also on a Garelick mount. It is smooth, quiet and powerful, but heavy. A 4-stroke would be heavier still. The Garelick extends the motor farther aft than the original mount, and combined with the heavier motor is affecting the trim to the point that the cockpit drains are level with the water. I'm going to dump the heavy galley unit next year, and may try a 6hp Evinrude that I have as a spare. I moor on a river that gets a little mucky in late summer, so I get a line of crud on the hull if it doesn't float on its lines. I think at least some of the Tohatsus have air-cooled engines which can be considerable noisier than water-cooled, although I have no personal experience with them.
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Post by OutnBacker »

Like Windnutlarry says, 9.9 gets into the heavy range. If I recall correctly, my Tohatsu Sail-Pro weighed only 37lbs. It was , in 2010, the world's lightest 4-stroke. I really miss that motor. I could easily lift it off the mount and sling it over my shoulder each time I got home from the ramp. With such a light motor there's no sense in leaving it outside when not in use.

It may be that you may find a used one for around $1000. Very much worth it. Tohatsu makes small outboards for Mercury and Nissan as well, so one of those would be a good choice, too. They are identical.
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
Reality
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:11 pm
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Post by Reality »

thanks. Hadn't thought about the weight pulling the drains down below surface. Important consideration.
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astrorad
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Post by astrorad »

Although I have not had my boat in the water yet I wilol tell you what I have. I have the Tohatsu 9.8, 25 inch shaft, 4 blade hidh thrust prop,electric start, and alternator.Garelick 25hp motor mount with 15 inch lift range. This is the same setup that Capt.Scott is using I believe.
If the boat balance is upset by the aft weight then you probably could put some counter balancing weight forward...anchor and other gear such as a cooler filled with ice and beverages.
The motor I have weighs in at about 98 lbs.
Bill
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OutnBacker
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Post by OutnBacker »

The only issue with the drain holes (scuppers) being wet is that you might have a little water in cockpit when at rest. The holes in the transom are a bit lower than the ones on the inside. Usually, the water will run out when under way.
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
windnutlarry
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:33 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

C22 outboard

Post by windnutlarry »

I read somewhere that the rule of thumb is 2hp per 1000# displacement or therabouts. The Pearson23 in the adjoining slip uses a 6hp Evinrude 2-stroke with no problem. My Yamaha weighs in at 85 lbs, and a full 6-gallon fuel tank is about 35 more. If the lighter motor and removing the galley unit doesn't put her back on the lines, I suspect the problem might be waterlogged foam under the aft berths.
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OutnBacker
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Re: C22 outboard

Post by OutnBacker »

windnutlarry wrote:I read somewhere that the rule of thumb is 2hp per 1000# displacement or therabouts. The Pearson23 in the adjoining slip uses a 6hp Evinrude 2-stroke with no problem. My Yamaha weighs in at 85 lbs, and a full 6-gallon fuel tank is about 35 more. If the lighter motor and removing the galley unit doesn't put her back on the lines, I suspect the problem might be waterlogged foam under the aft berths.
Honestly, I'm thinking that your motor and fuel weight is not the ussue. The Chryslers are a heavy design, and beamy as well. My C-22 rode slightly bow down with the big Garelick, Tohatsu 6hp, and a 6gal tank. Lighter by far than yours, but still...

My C-20 has the much heavier 8hp Evinrude and a 3gal tank and rides the same way (another heavy, beamy boat).

Alot of sailboats are designed to rest bow down and as they take on payload, come to their lines. The motor should not be to much.

A sample core hole with a 1/2 drill in several places will tell the tale. Use a plant soil humidity checker. They are cheap but effective and available at any garden supply center. You can just drill the hole in the plywood and then shove the probe into the foam about 6 to 8 inches deep. It is not unheard of to drill a hole in the ply, only to have water run right out as you punch through.
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
windnutlarry
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:33 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

C22 outboard

Post by windnutlarry »

Thanks, I was afraid I was going to run out of projects anyway. It's all buttoned up for the winter now, but it gives me a reason to get through another Green Bay winter.
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OutnBacker
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Re: C22 outboard

Post by OutnBacker »

windnutlarry wrote:Thanks, I was afraid I was going to run out of projects anyway. It's all buttoned up for the winter now, but it gives me a reason to get through another Green Bay winter.
You have a boat. Therefore you shall never run out of projects.
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
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astrorad
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Post by astrorad »

As far as I know the only places where there is foam in the C22 are the following...small area on either side of transom, aft of the port and starboard lazarettes behind wooden bulkheads...the entire starboard side settee from aft to forward vee bunk area...and most likely underneath the raised cabin sole in the forward vee bunk area. I haven't checked out this last area but I don't believe it is prone to water intrusion.
The starboard settee has chorme cap plugs over the holes that were used to fill the area with foam. I took a 1/2 inch thinwall EMT conduit and filed some teeth in the end to use as a core drill to remove some foam to test for water. Obviously the length of conduit has to be short enough to clear the overhead cabin roof. You can simply twist the conduit by hand to drill out a core sample and poke the pieces out with a wooden dowel. Insert a dry, half inch wooden dowel into the hole and hold against the side. upon removal you can see the level of saturation in the foam.
I removed all the cap plugs and drilled a 1/4 hole in the side of the starboard settee very near the lowest point. Water seeped out for about one summer and now the foam is pretty much dry as far as I can tell.
Bill
Reality
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Post by Reality »

Thanks Bill. I was wondering what those chrome caps were for. A couple of mine are very rusted and just had electrical tape covering them. Maybe I'll drill a drain hole as you suggest to see what happens.
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OutnBacker
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Post by OutnBacker »

Bill, did you drill any upper holes to let in air to facilitate draining?

John
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
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