Shoal draft rudder characteristics

amayotte · Post by **amayotte** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:21 pm

So the new shoal draft rudder has been made, installed, and now I have sailed a couple times with it. I have some questions about it and am hoping someone can answer them.

From what I can tell the rudder isn't totally balanced but it is close.
There is a little more resistance in turning compared to the original but it's not uncomfortable.
There is a fair bit of weather helm though while sailing. if motoring, even at high speeds, there is no wondering or lack of control so there is something with sailing that I am either doing wrong or I am wondering if a bad rudder design could cause this?

While sailing I had a 150% genoa and the original full main. Both sails were trimmed so that there was no twist in the sail and I had her healed to 30 degrees. I also had the keel fully down.
There was a lot of weather helm at 30 and the tiller was pulled in quite hard to keep my heading.
It got better if I let the main out but would never go away.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what I could try or is this normal?

Holiday · Post by **Holiday** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:45 pm

Adam,

I have not sailed my chrysler so take this for what it is worth. You can adjust the balance of the rig and weather helm by raking the mast slightly more forward or raising the keel (which will more it back slightly). Hope this helps. Of course a longer tiller might make it easier.

Did you try dipping the rail? I am curious if having a shorter rudder causes the rudder to come too far out of the water when the boat gets hit with a hard gust.

amayotte · Post by **amayotte** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:15 pm

Thanks for the suggestions.
I did try to wet the rail but the wind wasn't co-operating.

Thanks,
Adam

Bhacurly · Post by **Bhacurly** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:43 pm

Adam,

What tack were you on and what were the winds doing??

Sounds like you may have had too much sail up. The main may have been overpowered and most of the power was aft of your CG, pulling it to windward. Things you can try also are moving the traveler all the way to the leeward side, or putting a reef in the main. Keep the boomvang tight also so the main maintains it's shape if you have to release the mainsheet. Sometimes just letting the main out will cause a bunch of flapping, which can be really hard on an older sail.

My C-22 does well in moderate winds with a reefed main and the 110% Jib, not really sure what the C-26 is like so someone else will have to chime in there...

30 degrees heel sounds like a lot also,,, I know it's exciting, but it increases your wetted surface area and creates a lot of drag, then if your rudder is acting like a brake to keep your heading your speed drops way off. If you have a good speedometer or GPS watch what your speed does after getting the sails trimmed so the helm is more balanced and your sitting at 15 degrees heel...

Billy

amayotte · Post by **amayotte** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:11 pm

The winds were 5 knots, so it's not like they were excessive.
I was actually trying to put the rail in the water to see how far I could heel and still have rudder in the water...just because it's a new rudder and I'm trying to find the limits.

I guess that brings up another big question - what is the optimum angle of heel for a sailboat?

It is exciting to heel her over but more than anything I have a trust issue with her and am really wanting to find her limits. I am sure she can handle more than me but I am kinda like a paranoid father. I don't want to see her fall apart.

Thanks for suggestions, they all help,
Adam

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:11 pm

The owner's manual says 15 degrees is max for performance. For me this is still theory because I am still "dirt sailing".

amayotte · Post by **amayotte** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:50 am

Thanks Paul.

I am blind cause I looked in the manual and couldn't find it.
Much abliged.

Adam

John K · Post by **John K** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:12 am

My guess is that the weather helm has increased because the rudder was moved aft. My friend's Catalina 22 has a transom rudder, and it has a lot more weather helm than mine.

sauerleigh · Post by **sauerleigh** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:11 pm

This is only my opinion and I don't have any numbers to back it up, but I think your pivot point to far forward. If you trailer launch your boat, you might try this. With the new rudder tube and plate you have, drill another set of mounting holes, forward from the originals, say by 1", sorry American. Remount the rudder and try sailing again and see if there is any improvement, a more balanced helm. I probably would not go with much more of an offset, you'll start loading the weldment inside you rudder.

amayotte · Post by **amayotte** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:32 pm

Ya that sounds like it might help.
I think I will leave that for the winter though since it will take me at least a day to that and my summer is almost over up here.

Thanks all for the info and help.

After knowing that the optimum heel is 15 degrees that makes me feel a little better since it's no problem holding that.
I can even hold 30 it just takes work...but it's fun.

Thanks again,
Adam