Sheared the rudder shaft =8^O

[Windward]

Sailboat? Workboat? Two variations on the same root: boat!

Easy sail in a moderate breeze, with no grounding or submerged objects. <<spare the reader the mundane series of events here>> Following what would be my last tack of the day, I noticed that the tiller action was smooth, suspiciously easy and had no effect at all on Windward's heading.

<<spare the reader more details here>> I was able to swim down and lash it securely, and a fellow sailor who was headed back to the marina gave me a tow.


Rudder shaft sheared at the base of the lower mushroom bearing. Looking at the jagged surface of the break, it appears to have been already cracked in a couple of places for some time. Perhaps a stress riser formed along the weld where the rudder was reinforced? There's a inner shaft for 12 - 18", and since that remained undamaged the rudder control lines kept the rudder attached to the boat and stable.

Pics sometime later, along with details of repair.

I will likely get the shaft welded, then find some way to have the inner shaft welded or otherwise attached to the outer shaft (maybe drilled and tapped, then cut off flush on the outside?) at a few points along its length. I'll also trace it out and see about having a new shaft/cheek plate unit fabricated.

Inconvenient, but much better timing than having this happen six weeks from now at the Outer Banks. It also emphasizes that rudder failures do happen. I'm confident I could improvise something using locker lids, paddles and the whisker pole, but not quickly and easily in the middle of Ocracoke or Bogue Inlet, or in a decent blow with commensurately sized waves.

I need to more seriously consider a quick-to-install emergency rudder, and also need to look at adding a tiller to the outboard so I could use it to steer in an emergency.

[EmergencyExit]

Ooooo.

We had a Mac25 guy lose his rudder on False River earlier this year. It snapped right at the cheeks, and his outboard was frozen in place so no steering there. The wind, of course, was howling right down the lake and there was no one else out so he had to work his way back with sail balance. Wasn't pretty but he got back..

Sure put us all on the same thought line of having a spare to hang off the transom when needed.

[Windward]

The shaft is 41" long, 1.5" OD, about .125" wall. There's a 1.25" inner tube inside the bottom 20", also about .125" wall. There is a very slight gap between the two tubes, so the outer will flex some small amount before the inner tube provides additional rigidity.

The basic cheek plates are 15" square, with a 7.5" radius curve along the bottom top, back and bottom edges. It appears to be 11 gauge stock (just shy of .125"), and I'd previously added .125" x 3" stainless horizontal reinforcement centered on the pivot bolt to repair the front edge cracks.

Looks as though the original assembly probably clocks in around 23# before I added a few pounds to reinforce it. Its obvious weaknesses are the lower shaft, a stress riser that cracks the leading edge of the cheek plates, and a tendency for the cheek plates to bend laterally after a significant grounding.

So, I began to consider the whole repair vs replace thing. Repair is still kind of a no brainer, since it should be fairly quick, cheap and would provide an eventual spare. Not really happy about the strength/utility of the lower section of the shaft, though.

Replacement. Hmm.

Looking to Online Metals, my favorite supplier of such materials, I got estimates for 316 stainless. Most cost effective sturdy option I came up with was:

• ==> 316 stainless cold rolled tubing, 1.5" OD, .25" wall, 48" @ $210.16, finished wt ~11.4 lbs
  ==> 316 stainless cold rolled sheet, .135" thickness, 24"x24" @ $189.30, finished wt ~17.4 lbs
  ==> 316 stainless annealed rectangle, .125" thickness, 3"x36" @ $33.13, finished wt ~3.23 lbs. Scrap would be used to brace across the top and leading edge of the cheek plates

Using .188 for the cheek plates would add only 3.4# but would add $110 -- not a worth increase for me. Downsizing the rudder post to .188 wall would save 2.4# and $28 -- not a worthwhile savings.

So, for about $430 in materials (excluding shipping) and probably $50 - $100 in labor, I can get a 29# replacement that should be much stronger. I'd re-use the existing Idasailor rudder blade, along with the bearings, tiller head and collar.

I'm going to start with repair, and depending on the final cost with labor will probably also pursue a replacement unit.

Anyone with ideas for a significant design improvement that would not add much expense or complexity to the project?

Unfortunately, what I really want is a new, fairly heavy duty, high cut 110% furling genoa, and this latest development puts that sail just a bit further away...

[Windward]

... he had to work his way back with sail balance. Wasn't pretty but he got back..

I tried that initially, but the wayward rudder fought me. Once I dove, centered the rudder and lashed it to both of the aft cleats I probably could have steered with the sails -- in fact, I had a little steering just by yanking on one or the other of those lines -- but by then I had a tow. I'd have been much less pleased to dive and lash in a bunch of jellyfish, or between the bottom of the boat and the bottom of a shallow, rough inlet.

[Paul]

Jeff, see if you can find a welder who already works with stainless. The one I found had some scrap he could use for mine so that a new set of cheeks with new stainless tube, all jetted out & welded up, will be delivered for $150.00.

[EmergencyExit]

I don't think he ever found the rudder. BTW was from the same folks as the one that Windward carries. They replaced it immediately and only asked for the piece that remained between the cheeks for testing to see what happened I supposed.

I'll be interested in what you do for sure. Since EE is on the hard till next year's (hopeful) long term move to Pass Christian, I want to be sure I don't get to repeat your experience !

[amayotte]

Windward.

I know what I did to my boat was a fair bit of work but it works amazingly.
I have now figured out the proper sail balance and the rudder works great. The new shaft assembly is so smooth, tight, and quiet.
The new shoal rudder works really good and has about 5 to 10 degrees weather helm depending on heal.
Today I just finished a 5 hour sail in 27 knots, double reefed and the genoa brought in 50%. It was a very pleasent sail...minus the gusts.
I had her over to 45 deg. a couple times and there was a lot of weather helm then but that is to be expected I'm sure.
You definitly don't need the same rudder for where you sail but the new shaft and tube system works flawlessly. I can provide parts and specs if you wish.

Adam

[Windward]

Adam -- Your rudder is beautiful. I'd consider some variant on that design for a future project, particularly since a shoal rudder would be super in much of the Pamlico Sound area, but cannot go to that level of effort just now.

Paul -- Good point. I'd already planned to check with the folks that normally do my welding, and with another shop I know, to see if they had suitable scrap around, but will make that a higher priority now.

In the mean time, I've been looking at some emergency rudder ideas on the web, and once there's time I may do some experimenting.

[Holiday]

I have cracks starting near the welds on Holiday also. I believe this is what is due to crevice corrosion. I have been looking for a good source for 2205 duplex (austenitic) stainless. This is the alloy that is typically used for underwater service to prevent crevice corrosion. I lost a mast to this problem once when a 316 stainless turn buckle failed due to crevice corrosion.

Of course the old rudder lasted 30 years so maybe 304 or 316 stainless is not such a big problem.

[Windward]

Went to my favorite machine shop today. $15 out the door for the repair. First, the shop drilled three 1/2 or so holes in the outer tube. The welder then aligned and stabilized the severed pieces and tacked them together. Then the welder worked radially to weld the entire circumference of the tube. After this, welded the outer shaft to the inner one through the three holes, filling them as he went. A final application of the grinder to ensure the bearings would slide over the finished repair and I was on my way.

I may have some slight alignment issues, but am anxious to see how this works out. Problem is, I won't know whether it's reliable until I go sail it hard, and that's likely to happen on the coast.

I'd still be happiest to have a new setup welded but the shop had no suitable scrap about, so unless I can score elsewhere a from-scratch replacement would be in the $400 - $500 range. Assuming this fits well, I'm inclined to give it a whirl for now.

For a simple, truly emergency use setup, I'm thinking large hose clamps or u-bolts to affix some 1/2" ply to the whisker pole, then lashing it to the stern pulpit at the transom. Should give me a solid fulcrum and hopefully enough leverage. It would not be elegant, nor as effective as a cassette style device, but quick to knock together and better than steering with the sails, or a paddle, or a bridle and drogue.

[kokezaru]

For a simple, truly emergency use setup, I'm thinking large hose clamps or u-bolts to affix some 1/2" ply to the whisker pole, then lashing it to the stern pulpit at the transom. Should give me a solid fulcrum and hopefully enough leverage.

I have read, more than once, that that style of makeshift rudder is virtually useless. You could probably test that by actually making it an see if it does work. I am sure that most people on here (myself included) would be very curious about the results. Better to try it in a controlled environment, that in an emergency one.

[Windward]

I've read the same thing, but it's so easy to rig that it's worth a try. I've seen recommendations of trailing a hunk of chain off the blade to keep it down, as well as using some sort of line or cable to provide the downforce. Thing is, people really did steer boats with variants on the "sweep" theme, so there must be a way to make it work.

The cassette design, with a solid rudder that slips into a hollow retainer shell that's slipped into transom-mounted hardware, seems like the best and easiest "good" solution, but I don't see having time to get that set up in the next month or so -- the horizon for this trip.

With luck the whole exercise remains an academic concern, but as I learned on Saturday, sometimes luck comes in the context of "lucky it failed when it did."

[Jmckamey]

Jeff, If you find a guy locally maby we can get a group rate. I will be needing a rudder post and cheek assy. in the near future as mine is alum. and was in salt water for years, It's pretty much gone at this point. I think I can get by for a little while, but will need soon. I'll inquire around.

Down here in Kingsport there's a scrap metal/recycler outfit on long island that I have purchased from in the past for great prices, they have a verity of metals all the time. Jeff

[Mario G]

Hey Jeff If you need something you need fixed/made before your trip please let me know.

My rudder is different so I only have the C-22's when it comes to retractible.

[Windward]

@Mario, Thx for the offer. Are you a fabricator?

Looks like I'll hit the coast late on Friday, Oct 1, and will try to provision and get underway on Saturday. Not sure if I'll leave Windward in Oriental or at Paradise for the week before I start, but if she's at Paul's maybe I'll see you guys there. Still hacking at an itinerary... Manteo via the Alligator River and Albemarle Sound is a haul, but it'd be fun to go someplace new. Still looking to head outside from Ocracoke to Lookout or beyond (maybe Masonboro Inlet, near Wilmington), but that completely depends on wx and where/when I'll pick up the family.

@Jeff - Kingsport, huh? Didn't realize you were that close. I'm in Elizabethton, and Windward usually lives on Watauga Lake, unless i've scarfed a friend's trailer and parked her at the house so I can work on her more readily. We'll have to sail some time.

I'm not sure if the C22 assembly is exactly the same or not... I'm pretty sure it still uses the 1.5" OD shaft, and the cheek plates look to be the same, but not sure if shaft length is the same or not. If it is, a stock pattern and a group buy might be cool. When I priced out materials it looked to be around $430 for a significantly stronger unit of the same design. Adam's setup is sweet, though, especially the bearings. The one plus to the HDPE stuff, apart from low friction, is that electrolysis isn't a problem.

[tgentry]

Jeff,
Any pictures of the damage and repair?

I'm thinking some reinforcement over the winter might a good bit of insurance if I can manage to remove it while on the trailer.

[Mario G]

LOL sorry Jeff my 1st response didn't post.

I do old car restorations and customizations which require a large amount of fabercation.

I'm finding working on the boats much easier

[Jmckamey]

Hey Jeff. I sail on Wataga lake as well and will be getting a slip there next year. I think I saw you comming out of Lakeshore one day back in late spring. The wind was howling and we were the only sailboat out . I was on my C20 and we were starting back to Rat branch boat ramp, just caught a quick sighting of a red boat as we went around the point. Don't have a useable boat at this time so give a shout if you need a crew. Would love go sailing. (Btw, I have a nice cooler that holds lots of refreshments) LoL . Jeff

[NYCSAILOR]

Unreal... Jeff always pushes the envelope and with EE's capt'n are the fleets "test pilots" !!!

Am I OK to ask if this is the IdaSailor blade...

What is interersting about Jeff's ordeal is that just this month in SAIL mag.. there is a story of a catalina with this exact rudder failure.... and they go through the "what we did right" and "what we did wrong" in the article..

THis captn' steered by very quickly deploying a plastic bucket as a drogue.... very very interesting and togetjher with Jeff's info above.. I would consider it must reading for all of us since rudder failure in these old boats is just a matter of "when"

I will up the "refresh the mushrooms / inspect the rudder shaft / update the rudder thru - hull" project.....

I always envision a rudder failure ( losing steering) and then a resulting rudder thru- hull failure ( taking on water) and my ultimate and most plausible "SOS" scenario ( even more so than a hard grounding - somehow I think she could take that and survive)

[EmergencyExit]

NYC - In the case of my friend's broken blade, yes, that is correct.

lol - Jeff sails his to pieces, mine just falls to pieces !

And yes I was one of those kids that took everything apart to see how it worked.

Wanna know how a 1965 era remote control Tiger Joe tank by Remco worked, I'm your guy. Same for the Remco Barracuda submarine toy.

[Windward]

My rudder break was the original shaft where it met the cheek plates. The IdaSailor rudder has so far been strong... parked the boat on it in shallow water once, with enough force that I had to disassemble the tiller to free the hold-down line from the clam cleat. No damage to the rudder.

I'd been thinking of picking up a drogue before I read the bucket brigade steering article. May make a collapsible bucket instead -- no real room for a 5 gallon job on board. Would probably still have had to lash the rudder before it would have worked, though.

[sauerleigh]

I'd seen some collapsible, canvas sea anchors somewhere.

[sauerleigh]

I had put off working on the rudder shaft, straightening the cheeks and adding some stiffeners to them. After this post came up I decided venture down that path again and my outer rudder tube has a crack in it, just above the cheek on one side. Just looking at it, it was difficult to see, just looked like some dirt at the edge of the weld. Stainless will work harden and the areas next to a weld is always under some stress from shrinkage after the welding process unless the part has been annealed or stress relieved. I used a MAP gas torch to heat up the shaft just above the cheeks which is were it sounded like Jeff's tube gave up, presto, what looked like some dirt opened up about .015" and nearly 1" long.

I am not going to repair or remake this setup. I will either modify the transom and hang the rudder from there or go with a rudder along the lines of our adventurous friend to the north.

I will post some photos on Monday to show all what I have found.

[sauerleigh]

Here are a few pics of the crack in my rudder shaft. The crack extends almost to the bottom of the first pic.

DSCN2726 by sauerleigh, on Flickr

DSCN2723 by sauerleigh, on Flickr

DSCN2721 by sauerleigh, on Flickr



The cheeks had also cracked and were repaired at one time and my best guess would be that the damage occurred with the rudder in the down position when backing up the trailer. Regardless of the route I take, shoal or transom hung, I'm probably looking at $600 to $1200. I checked out IDA's kick-up setup for the CAT25 which is transom mounted but it reminds me of the Chrysler system only hung on the transom. I liked the setup used on my Ensenada20, it was plenty strong and never gave a problem. If you copy and paste the link below you'll get an idea.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_M8ZctD3mAFI/Sbhp7 ... rudder.JPG