What is the engine setup on your C-26 ?

KeyWest · Post by **KeyWest** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:47 pm

Some background on mine:

We purchased our fixed keel C-26 about a year ago, and the motor that came with it has been nothing but trouble. The motor on the boat was a Honda 9.9 hp motor (BF9-9A), extra long shaft, and we think it might have been made in the mid 90s, but it's hard to be sure because the motor has been stripped of any kind of identifying plate, inside or out.

When we picked up the boat, the motor quit after 10 minutes. There was nothing wrong with the engine itself, but it overheated. This was a problem since we have a four foot draft and were stuck in a very narrow channel. In the Keys there are lots of places where you can't "sail out" of a dock because access is by straight narrow channels carved into the rock. We waited for the motor to cool, then started it up again, and repeated this until we were clear of the channel. We sailed to the vicinity of our marina 30 miles away, but then had to call Sea Tow (thank God I bought that the week before) because of a strong current and the channel approach to our Marina.

Thoroughly disgusted with the motor, we had someone look at it, and he told us we needed a new impeller. It didn't help that the previous owner had kept the motor with the propeller in the water. I don't know how long it was like that. So we had the impeller replaced, along with the propeller. This took four weeks. (long, interesting story) This is par for the course in Key West! So we eagerly anticipated putting the motor back on the boat so that we can get out of the marina we were living in and go sailing. Let me tell you, this motor was HEAVY. It took two people to move and put back on the boat. We get the motor back on, start it up... and it stops again after a few minutes. NUTS. Water was not circulating. At this point (after 100's of dollars) we have no more money to spend on this motor. A friend offers to help. We take the motor out, take apart the manifold, and there's salt clogging every single nook and cranny of the thing. How did this motor run before we got it? I am left scratching my head...

Anyway, that's where we left it when we came back north last summer. We had to borrow someone's 3.5 hp Mercury longshaft to get the sailbout back around the island to the boatyard where the boat sits today, awaiting our return. I was surprised that the 3.5 hp Mercury worked for us, but it was a very calm day. Which brings me to my question.

If you have an outboard, do you use a long shaft or an extra long shaft? What kind of motor is it? What is the thing that holds the motor onto the boat called? On our boat it's this awkward looking plywood box. It doesn't look like it came with the boat originally. Can you point me to a picture of what the original back end of the Chrysler C-26 looked like?

The old motor is disassembled at this point and I'm not sure what to do. Do I pump more money into this thing? It's going to cost more than the motor is worth to fix it if a professional does it. Plus, it's been jury rigged to fit with controls on the boat. I can't quite remember where all the wires go. I originally had professional mechanic look at it and he said it seems like it has low engine hours and sounds really good. The only problem was the water circulation. I am mechanically inclined but I know almost nothing about outboard motors. I ordered the gasket kit for the manifold so I can put it back together. I'm inclined to put the motor together as best I can and then sell it and buy another one. This motor is too unwieldy for us.

I'm also not happy with the transom box-thingy, because there's a small crack in one of the joints between it and the transom. I'm worried the motor may just drop off one day.

What kind of motor do you recommend? We are on a very strict budget. If I had my druthers I wouldn't have a motor at all, but that is impossible in our circumstances.

Sorry for the long post.

ronc98 · Post by **ronc98** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:48 am

If it was me I would rebuild that motor. Overheating is almost always an impeller or intake blockage issue. Both of those are pretty easy to fix. If we get much more snow and ice in Ohio I will drive down myself and rebuild if for you!

I am pushing my C-26 around with an older Johnson 9.9 and that does a great job. When it gets windy and choppy I would rather like to have a bigger motor, to overcome the wind blowing on the large about of free board these boats seem to have.

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:25 am

I have a 06 15 hp Johnson 2 stroke and the reason I went for 2 stroke is I could tilt out of water as the cowl will clear the outboard opening without modifying the bracket.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34432376@N06/4687939611/

John K · Post by **John K** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:27 am

Many (if not all) of the Honda motors have thermostats in them as well. You might want to keep that in mind.

NoRush · Post by **NoRush** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:50 am

I am using a Nissan 8 2-stroke. I like the reliability of the 2-stroke but not the fuel consumption.

I agree with the above post that your outboard should be stripped down and cleaned. It is very likely that salt and growth is inhibiting water circulation.

Jmckamey · Post by **Jmckamey** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:22 am

As I said in my last post I just returned from the keys and the one thing I learned through observation, is what I would concider as min equipment would be at least a 9.9 with electric start and at least a couple of extentions for control of the motor. It was quite windy when we were there with a lot of chop. I currently have a 5hp on my 22 and it works quite well for the lake, but I am going to repower so I can take her to the keys if I want. I would hate to think of the prospect of hanging off the back of the boat tring to start or operate the outboard at the same time tring to steer the boat in those currents and wind. I have in the past been on a underpowered boat in a strong wind. I can tell you that it's no fun being pushed ashore by the wind because the motor won't make way.

amayotte · Post by **amayotte** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:39 am

I have the exact same motor as lecker68.
It's an awesome motor. quiet, reliable, powerful, and fairly good on fuel.

I would also try a new impeller and rebuild the transom.
Just a quick note though. If you are going to rebuild the transom try to design one where you could lower the motor (enen though it's a long shaft) even further into the water.
I have been in weather where the waves prevent me from being able to start my motor cause I couldn't keep it in the water long enough.

Two strokes will burn out the impeller if they are out of water for a little as 30 seconds.

Adam

KeyWest · Post by **KeyWest** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:08 am

Many thanks for your replies!

Yes, it has controls and extensions. I just don't know how it all goes back together. The guy who original replaced the impeller just snipped the cables. Thanks for the picture of the motor and bracket, it looks like the original bracket. The one we have definitely was rebuilt. I will try to locate a picture. I can't go get a picture now because we are 1500 miles from the boat!

Alanhod · Post by **Alanhod** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:51 am

clair hofmann · Post by **clair hofmann** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:27 pm

Hi Key West
That would be a great motor to hold on to if you can fix or get fixed for a reaosnable cost. I have the same vintage motor only a 15 hp. I bought it from a former member of the forum but have not yet had it on my 26.

It sounds like it is suffering from owner neglect and should be able to be fixed. It sounds like you are somewhat mechanically inclined. Fixing an outboard is not rocket science.If you've never been into an outboard before, go online and get a service manual. You can get a good idea what the inside looks like by going on an online parts site and looking at parts breakdowns for particular sections of the motor. One site I've been using for the Honda is www.atlanticgearcase.com. Click on honda parts, pick your motor and then the section you want to look at.

As stated above, it seems your cooling system needs a good cleaning. The PO of my motor added a garden hose hookup for flush out when fineshed using. Alot of the newer motors come with that.

Its a shame the "mechanic" cut the controls and harness to get the motor off the boat. Seeing the motor had remote control does it still have the tiller?

As far as mounting, Mine came with a Garelick motor mount the PO had mounted to the OE mount. That allowed him to get the extra long shaft totaly out of the water. My plan is to remove the OE mount, fill in the opening and mount the motor off to the port side. I have to have my rudder up to get into my slip and the extra long shaft and rudder won't play nicely together. That will also allow me to build a swim platform on the c/l of the boat.

If you can get that motor running you'll like the quiet smooth running of the 4 stroke. As well as the absense of smoke and need to mix oil. It is a heavy motor but once you get it straightened out, it should go on the boat and stay on.

Remember, self suffeciency keeps saiiling affordable. Knowing your motor might help you sometime in the future.

Long post . Hope it helps
Clair

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:06 pm

On that Honda My PO had a 15 hp 4 stroke and the control cables if he cut them for throttle and F-N-R the gear shift was a lever that came through the starboard side of the lower power head cover and the throttle was a lever inside the cover on the port side of engine if he cut those he did more work than he needed to if he cut the wires for the electric start and charging they should be color coded all but the battery wires they were both black with a red connector at the battery end and that is easy as well the one with the red connector goes with the wire that is hooked to the solenoid and the black goes to ground.

NYCSAILOR · Post by **NYCSAILOR** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:34 pm

I have a c-26 fixed keel and use a suzuki 9.9 four stroke with electric start.... thing is damn heavy and underpowered in the bay, Ihave the long shaft and it hobby horses out of the water.. this off seasonI lowered the whole mount to get the shaft lower... i will see how that goes...

I learned the hard way.. get rid of old troublesome OB's.... I have two already in my basement.... and get a more modern, fresher unit... we like to go sailing .. not restore old OB's and you really only need the OB, --- when you really need it... and must realy on it or the sailing day can get very expensive... more than a fresh OB... my four stroke is circa 2001 or so , so it is not even that new... other than the weight of it I hope it is one less thing in my life to worry about and I am sure to flush it and change the impeller every season...

Honda have a good reputation but any OB, if abused will turn bad.....

KeyWest · Post by **KeyWest** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:37 pm

Hey guys can you take a look at my transom under the "new c26 fixed keel" thread? Does your transom look like that or has mine been modified? Do you think the original bracket is under all that or has it been ripped out? How do I tell?

Thanks for your advice everyone. What's an OB? Oh, outboard, nevermind...

NYCSAILOR · Post by **NYCSAILOR** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:09 pm

looks like you have the original OB intergrated bracket and "well"

it is a nice feature and you will find many captains here posting ideas of how they reinforced / repaired theirs..

Emergency Exit (with Jeff of windward and many others you will come to know) mantains a invaluable site wth lots of project repair info...

I took that off, filled-in the transom for a solid transom and I now use a common garlick OB bracket..

P.S. what is your Hull Number?

KeyWest · Post by **KeyWest** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:23 pm

Don't know the hull number, and the boat is 1500 miles way from where I'm sitting so I can't go look right now.

I never noticed it before, I hope it hasn't been removed/painted over. What kind of bracket did you install? Do you have a photo or a link?

When you look closely, my bracket looks modified. It's really uneven. There's a spot you can even see plywood underneath where someone failed to glass it completely...

ronc98 · Post by **ronc98** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:57 pm

Looking at the pictures of Ragtime the transom while integrated, looks like extends out more then the standard transom. I rebuild mine and from the pictures your sticks out considerable more then mine does. A picture inside the housing would help out greatly.

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:42 pm

Key West your OB mount has been modified and is higher than orig. and is out from the stern farther than orig. here is a link to mine and looking at your OB cavitation plate and your waterline you may vortex air to the prop and the prop pushes water well but not air.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34432376@N06/4687949819/

KeyWest · Post by **KeyWest** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:02 pm

That's what I thought. I have no idea why they did this to the boat, maybe because the Honda wouldn't fit on the original. It's an extra long shaft OB 25". So you're saying on the original attachment, a long shaft is good enough?

I'd love to restore the original fitting and get a smaller motor, but I have no idea if that is feasible. What is the original fitting made out of and how is it attached?

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:17 pm

When these boats were built you only had 2 stroke and the cowl was much lower when I had my 4 hp 4 stroke I could not tilt the engine with the 15 I can as the height from the mount to the top of the cowl is 2.5 inches lower. Why make it higher is a mystery unless they were worried about a following sea coming in which I went back to the post where your pic is and it looks like they closed off the scupper(cockpit drain). If you click this link toward the bottom on both sides of the outboard the 3" holes.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34432376@N06/4688567212/
Added a Pic of the depth to pevent cavitation.

15g by lecker68, on Flickr

PHTO0001 by lecker68, on Flickr
The new pic is the 4hp see the difference in the height of the engine cowl.

KeyWest · Post by **KeyWest** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:49 pm

Why would they close off the cockpit drain? Any ideas?

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:34 pm

No idea at all but I did not see any on Ragtime

NYCSAILOR · Post by **NYCSAILOR** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:47 am

I would never close off my cockpit drains for obvious reasons ( drain the cockpit..) but also an important vent for the fuel tank locker...

I amtrying to figure out a way to make the fuel locker a dry locker and still get a good ventilation in their or otherwise safel;y store MORE gas safely and move the weight forward somehow...

I have so much damn weight in the transom -- the 4-stroke OB, the battery, the fuel tank, the crew... etc..

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:27 am

I lost the original Chrysler Sailor 280 to (I think) old implellor bits caught in the water passages. I would look for a way to back flush it.

We then purchased an old Johnson Sailmaster 9.9 on ebay. That turned out to be a disaster because at some point in it's life it had been marinated in salt water. The coolant pipe had been broken off and a piece of hose substituted. This worked fine when forcing water in with muffs, but not so well under power. Overheating again.

Finally we bought a Suzuki 9.9 High Thrust with power tilt. This motor is a joy.

BTW, all 3 were electric start, remote control.

NYCSAILOR · Post by **NYCSAILOR** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:45 pm

I power the c-26 with the same suzuki 9.9 four stroke...

heavy but smooth running.. what type of prop do you have on her... I swapped teh OEM for one of those huge 3-blade mickey mouse ear props based on a thread on this site in an effort to get more low speed thrust and better reversing.. I got some more vibration... wondering if I should switch back...

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:58 pm

It came with a pretty substantial prop, so I left it on and it has worked fine.

I like the fact that rather than getting high thrust through gearing a 9.9 down, Suzuki uses their 15 running at lower rpm. Being an old gear head, bigger displacement sounds good to me.

Beady · Post by **Beady** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:32 pm

I got so mad at my outboard that I put it in the garage and bought an electric trolling motor. I used this last season on my c-22 but with no electricity at the dock I had to carry the battery back and forth. I think I am going to look at options for outboards this season. The lake where is keep the boat is limited to outboards less than 10hp. The electric pushed the boat pretty well but a strong head wind would be too much for it.

I feel your pain as screwing with outboards is the worst thing about boating. If I do go back to an outboard then I want to look at a new one and not mess around.

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:52 pm

I went to a 7 pitch 3 blade but a friend of mine has a 9.9 Johnson 4 stoke with a 7 pitch 4 blade and made a world of difference in backing and docking his boat is a 72 Bristol 26 fixed keel and he is about 300lb heavier so when I can find where he got the prop I am getting one and will let everyone know what I find on a C-26.

NYCSAILOR · Post by **NYCSAILOR** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:35 am

the 9.9 suzuki really a detuned 15...hmmm...

that might explain the weight and I wonder if we mess with the carb or remove a throttle plate restrictor could we have "hack" our way to a 15 hp... ( if I am lugging around the weight of 15 horses , I'd damn well better get the power of 15 horses -- yes I know we have this thing called hull speed)

Mario G · Post by **Mario G** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:27 am

I have a 1978 Evinrude 9.9 2 stroke on my C-26 and except for a little gas sucking it did great comming down the ICW from NC to Florida allowing it to run 5+kts eaisily keeping up with our E-32's 20hp diesel ,its nice to tilt it up to clean after long periods of time in salt water.

Key West I'm going to be in the area if you need any help.