c-22 starboard listing

Beady · Post by **Beady** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:31 pm

Guys;

I know some of you have had listing problems on the starboard side. The foam gets wet over the years. I noticed this problem and the foam is under where the old gallery was. I have a couple of questions before I cut a hole in the boat.

1. Does anyone have any pictures of how big a hole they cut and how they covered it when they were done?

2. Is there a tool to get the wet foam out? Could you get it out with something like an ice cream scooper? (I know that sounds odd but just trying to see how dense this wet foam is).

The trim on the boat is about 180 lbs or a person about my weight on the port side to trim the boat so there has got to be a lot of wet foam in there. Any ideas would be great thanks.

Brian

Jmckamey · Post by **Jmckamey** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:04 pm

I can't help but to wonder if you could bore a hole using a hole saw about the same size as a wet vac hose down low in a couple of places along the length of the starboard settee. Then insert the hose of a wet vac and let it run for a period of time. You would need to remove some of the wilkie buttons that cap the foam injection points in order to let the compartment vent under vacume. Not sure how well this would work. Might be worth a try.
If this didn't work well then you could use the holes as starting points for your cuts. If I were to have to do this to my boat I would just plan to make this new storeage and I would make the cut outs large enough to accomadate.
I had to do the same on a power boat once. I used a scraper to remove the foam material. It came out real easy, have a couple trash bags handy and start pulling the stuff out. Most of it will come out by hand, kinda like cleaning a pumpkin. use the scraper to get it away from the sides. There's a C22 a couple of slips down from me and it is on about a 5 to 10 degree list to starboard. I"m sure it suffers from the same ailment.

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:36 am

Mine's a lot worse than 180 lbs trim! I'm at 250 and still wouldn't balance it out.

Cut the top of my settee open last fall and started hauling foam out. Top portion was damp but light, next cut was soaked and HEAVY! Found my problem.

Boat comes out of storage early next week (lots of rain in the forcast until then.) Not easy to pull out from the start, hoping once I get a little room it will come out easier.

I'll post pics and notes once I get started.

Alanhod · Post by **Alanhod** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:01 pm

Never done anything with the foam on my C-22, it balances just fine, but I have been following these foam discussions.

I looked at mine starboard side think about how I would get at that foam if I had to. I came up with the idea of getting at it from the plywood hatch on the forward part of the seat where the sea cock is for the sink. I would get a water tight screw in hatch and cut a hole to fit the new hatch and get at the foam from that end. Then I would go under the cockpit and put in a matching hatch in the face of the seat as it goes under the cockpit area and cut it out to get at the foam at the other end.

This part is ecologically horrible. I had a shop teacher back in the 1970's who would make molds of things out of Styrofoam. He'd glass over the entire Styrofoam part. Then he'd drill a small hole at one end of the newly made part and another hole at the other end of the part. Then he would pore gasoline in the top hole dissolving the Styrofoam, sloshing the gas from side to side, up and down, rolling it over and then pore everything out the exit hole at the bottom. All the Styrofoam would be melted out. When it was all out he'd let it sit for about a week for the gasoline smell to leave.

Is there a chemical that will melt this foam without melting fiberglass or posing a fire or explosion risk.

Thanks
Alan

bryan · Post by **bryan** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:46 pm

Good topic and comments guys - I'm looking forward to seeing the pics from your projects on this one.

Beady · Post by **Beady** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:04 pm

Well I cut the hole and started to haul out some foam. The foam on top was dry but it was wet near the bottom. The foam is a bear to get out the best tool so far was the claw end of a hammer. This was some work so I had an idea to drive 1 inch pvc into the bottom of the foam and attach one end to a bilge pump. My idea was to drill a number of small holes into the one inch pipe so the water could weep into the pipe and then be sucked out. I will take some photos over the weekend and let you know how my pvc idea works out.

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:09 pm

Good luck, Brian!

I'm VERY interested in your success. I did drill a hole up through the hull last year in hopes it would drain. Got a stream for a few seconds then it ended. That stuff really holds the water!

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:27 pm

Brian, your mulit-hole pipe may not work. If any of the holes are not in water they will suck air (lower viscosity) and the water will never move. Just a thought.

newfish · Post by **newfish** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:48 am

i have a 22 starwind with no float foam

were is it &how much in the c-22 ? dose anyone have pictures ??

Jmckamey · Post by **Jmckamey** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:46 pm

The floation foam is all the way down the starboard side under the bench that makes the starboard settee.

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:03 pm

Just got the boat back in my driveway last night. Pulled out the camera this afternoon and here are a couple of shots, as promised:

Plain to see, I cut open the top of the settee along the track for the sink unit. I'm planning on opening the side as well (Yeah, probably the side towards the keel trunk

) so I can get at the foam easier and have a side hatch for storage. I'll beef the whole thing up with a frame inside and lip around the top opening to place a cover, like what goes on the bilge.

Like I said before, the foam holds water like a camel! It's all coming out. Wish there was an easy way to get it out! Like Alan said, some type of chemical that would eat it up, but not bring the EPA or Homeland Security storming my house. Guess it's the armstrong method. More pics as I progress. Lots of wind and rain in this weeks end forcast, so probably working on the motor in the basement...

Cheers!

Beady · Post by **Beady** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:33 pm

Mark:

Thanks for the pictures. I did about the same thing and yes it is a bear to get the foam out. My problem is that once the docks are in I have to put the boat in the water ( I pay to put the boat in the water or in the lot but not both). I am going to have to cover up the hole and work on it a little at a time after I get the boat at the dock. I used the boat all last season and it was not a great problem. I am hoping that removing the galley and getting some of the wet foam will reduce the problem. I will also try to post some pictures and my solution but with the weather and my work schedule may not get out to the boat until next week.

Jmckamey · Post by **Jmckamey** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:49 pm

Great pic, two questions. Are you going to make another hatch under the cockpit locker? and what ya going to do with all that extra storage?

Almost makes me wish mine needed the same thing, that's a ton of space opened up.

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:01 pm

I'll open if, IF I need to go that far. I theorize that I won't since gravity will keep the foam in that area dry if I have any more leakage--any errant water should just settle in the lower area. We shall see, but I'm thinking I'll tire of that job and start looking towards "good enough" before I get to crawling under there. We shall see....

bryan · Post by **bryan** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:41 pm

Mark, good photos - thanks a lot. Now I know what to expect when I do the same, although I might first try going in from the side rather than the top. I'll post photos too when I can.

Thanks again!

Bryan

Capt. Bondo · Post by **Capt. Bondo** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:54 am

Mark, We'll be interested in how far back the foam is wet.
I was thinking of going in on the side (like Brian), and converting that space into some sort of storage that could be accessed when the kitchen is in use.
I'd be interested what the inside dimentions are after the foam is out.
Then I could figure out what storage design options I have.
Brian, let me know if you want to link up and kick around some ideas.

back2class · Post by **back2class** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:04 am

I would not want to loose that flotation. The peace of mind for me, as my boats tend to be moored, is better than storage space. But wow that is some great storage space! I still have to launch and see if I have the soggy foam issue. if I do I am just going to shove some plain white foam blocks that I find floating on the lake here all the time. Cut them up and stack them in like bricks. This is not a boat I ever plan to use in salt, so the silly kitchen thingy is even more useless for me since I am floating in billions of gallons of fresh water. In fact a 3 gallon jug of fresh water is a better design even if I were in salt or nasty freshwater. I am pretty sure the sliding galley is going away on my boat.

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:07 pm

B2C-

I gotta think that that "floatation"--isn't.

As heavy as it is when it's waterlogged like this, it can't provide much lift other than holding itself at the surface. That being the case, you would be better off putting the foam you find in there. Or fill it with empty plastic jugs with screw-on lids for maximum lift.

I'm not currently jazzed about the extra storage, maybe that'll come later. I just want the boat sitting level in the water. And the very LAST thing I'm worried about is that "silly kitchen thingy". Definately with you there! Hard to envision me ever lifting that back up into the boat. But that's how I roll...

mariner · Post by **mariner** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:32 pm

I jape to never have to do this "project" but if I do , I would look intomone of these coaming boxes

http://www.ssicustomplastics.com/coaming.htm

Jmckamey · Post by **Jmckamey** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:55 pm

I know it would be a pain, but it would be cool to know the weight of all the stuff you take out.

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:27 pm

I pulled out just about all you can see in the pics. Filled two 40 gal garbage bags! Released fairly nicely from the glass inside the cavity, maybe because of all the water saturation. Oversaturated at least three inches deep, drained it through a drilled hole in hull.

Here's the bad news, water wicks up the foam most of the way up the sides. I might be going in after ALL of it afterall. Dagnabbit!

Stuff is pretty heavy, probably 15 lbs per bag.

I'm likely to finish the job from the top--can't imagine going after it from the side. By the way, the side is plywood on the inside, top is just double walled glass with corrigated paper honeycomb (see pics above.)

Cheers!