Bilge access on a '79 26'?

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Dayenu
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Bilge access on a '79 26'?

Postby Dayenu » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:50 am

Hello all...

It's been a while for us, but we are back to working on our boat. Setting it up for more serious cruising... Just got back from Portland and purchased a 25# Mantus (Yes, a little bit of an over-kill, but although we're trailering, we will be "out there". Also new anchor line and a hard to find manual windlass among other goodies.

This is my second 26' and I "seem to recall" that there was an access plate under the companion way steps to get to the bilge.

Our current boat has great carpeting blued in place and I don't want to remove it needlessly to find out that there's no access plate on the cabin sole.

We have a manual whale pump and will need to feed the intake hose and strainer into the bilge, but we also want to install an electric pump, but need to know what we're dealing with (space-wise).

If I absolutely have to (and ONLY if I know that there's room underneath for pump installation), I'll remove carpeting and cut and re-build a small section of cabin sole to create an access.

Any input would be most appreciated.

Note, current boat was named "Easy Street" owned by bob (THANK YOU!!!), here on this forum. Now (properly!) renamed "Dayenu. Our intended cruising grounds are The San Juan Islands (this summer), Sea of Cortez in the winter and eventually plan to spend a few months in Florida and the Bahamas.

Other modifications include solar, Engel re fridge/freezer, fully enclosed Bimini/Dodger and a Nature's head composting toilet. We weighed the pros and cons (mostly costs), and have decided that even with more money, we will stick to this boat as the "real cruising boat" features plus being able to be trailered totally fit our style and plans.

Thanks!

Richard & Tresa

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Postby CaptainScott » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:42 am

Well, I can not help you with specific C26 details but cruising in the San Juans is great!

Happy to help there! LOL!
Be sure to keep your VHF on because if we see you we'll be hailing you from Destiny!

We spend a lot of time in the San Juans, Gulf Islands, and further North! If you are any where near we'd be happy to meet you!

We live in Everett, if you are trailer cruising through it might be fun to meet also!

Scott

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would love to meet!

Postby Dayenu » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:35 pm

Hi Scott,
We'd love to meet you!

We'll have some questions for you (thinking you're familiar with the islands): We're hoping to arrive second week in July and stay through the second week in August. as we get closer, maybe we can exchange phone numbers and I can pick your brain? I cruised the islands once in a san juan 21 and QUICKLY learned the value of the tidal current charts and annual update!!! LOL! But I don't remember what time of year that was... Maybe 12 years ago?

Still have so much to do on our boat. I know we won't get everything done for the SJ trip, so we're prioritizing per cruising grounds.

Bilge pump/safety is way up there as is a new bowsprit to handle the mantus and bruce anchors along with the windlass.

Still hoping for input regarding bilge access for pumps on the C-26...

What do you have in yours and how/where did you install it?

Thanks!
Richard
What we now have, was once, only hoped for...

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Re: Bilge access on a '79 26'?

Postby EmergencyExit » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:45 pm

Dayenu wrote:Hello all...


This is my second 26' and I "seem to recall" that there was an access plate under the companion way steps to get to the bilge.

No real access plate there at the actual foot of the steps, unless one was added later - however by removing the panel under the stern berth you will see the rear portion of the small bilge area.

It runs from back there forward past the short bulkhead behind the steps and on forward a couple feet to just behind the swing keel winch stand.

Just drop an electric pump under the stern berth area hatch, and push as far forward as you can. The whole bilge is not much at all in volume. Maybe 5 gallons or so as I recall..


Our current boat has great carpeting blued in place and I don't want to remove it needlessly to find out that there's no access plate on the cabin sole.

We have a manual whale pump and will need to feed the intake hose and strainer into the bilge, but we also want to install an electric pump, but need to know what we're dealing with (space-wise).



If I absolutely have to (and ONLY if I know that there's room underneath for pump installation), I'll remove carpeting and cut and re-build a small section of cabin sole to create an access.

Not really worth cutting in that area to add a access panel in my opinion.

If you lean over and stick your hand forward from that stern berth cover you'll see you can reach as far forward as the access hatch would get you anyway.

Plus it would be very easy to cut the hull in that area as it is very shallow except a few inches right down the center of that area where the hull dives down.


Any input would be most appreciated.

I used to have great pictures of that whole area, but when Bellsouth dropped the user Personal Web Page section of its service it got eaten..

Note, current boat was named "Easy Street" owned by bob (THANK YOU!!!), here on this forum. Now (properly!) renamed "Dayenu. Our intended cruising grounds are The San Juan Islands (this summer), Sea of Cortez in the winter and eventually plan to spend a few months in Florida and the Bahamas.

Other modifications include solar, Engel re fridge/freezer, fully enclosed Bimini/Dodger and a Nature's head composting toilet. We weighed the pros and cons (mostly costs), and have decided that even with more money, we will stick to this boat as the "real cruising boat" features plus being able to be trailered totally fit our style and plans.

Thanks!

Richard & Tresa

[/img]

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Postby Dayenu » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:55 pm

Thank you!
I went back there last week, but didn't think about bilge pumps at the time. We have a water tank that takes up that area under the rear berth... I'll have to go back up and check the area out more thoroughly. Almost certain there's no room under the tank... I thought about reaching forward at that area but in my rush to measure for lots of other items, I didn't... :( (For some reason, I "thought" there was a bulkhead there (From the cabin sole, down to the hull?)

It's 18 degrees outside right now... TONS of snow and I just caught a cold, so I don't see myself going up there any time soon... :(

I want a submersible, but can't really go shopping until I know what kind of room I have in there...

I'm laying in bed "trying to rest" (HA!) as I watch the Sailrite series on you-tube about dodgers and Biminis... LOL!

I "should be" sleeping... LOL!

Is there any greater obsession than planning refits on sailboats?

=D

Thanks again!
Richard

(I agree about NOT cutting into the cockpit sole!) Even if there's a bulkhead down there, I can cut through that if necessary.)
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Postby EmergencyExit » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:44 am

There is a bulkhead from sole to hull just behind the Keel winch stand. It contains the concrete ballast pour. (Actually on EE and Aislin Girl 1 there was about an inch of space between the sole and the bulkhead, which has a nasty consequence of water getting forward under the ply sole and rotting it if the bilge gets overfilled)

But that bit behind the steps only goes to the sole, leaving a pocket below it.
With a water bag back there you may want an access plate under the steps after all; might be less trouble than moving the bag anytime you need to service the pump !

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Postby Dayenu » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:02 am

Thank you for the details.

Actually I have a rigid/plastic tank (beveled underneath to follow the hull). I might be able to move it back a little to allow the bilge pump to fit just in front of it, but I'm really going to have to wait until I can get up there and inspect more closely. (I don't remember how much space exists between the bottom of thee tank and the hull... I'll have to check that out too.)

Thanks again!
Richard
What we now have, was once, only hoped for...

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Postby CaptainScott » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:18 am

Hi Richard,

I know nothing of the C26 and layout however I am familiar with the C22. There is little place in the C22 to successfully rid her of water in tight places.

One answer I used was to get a nice self priming bilge pump. Instead of trying to fit it in a tight spot, I found a convenient easy access place to mount it and simply ran a flexible hose to where I needed to suck water out.

This hose was not fixed in place because from time to time there was water in the main floor where there is zero room for a pump. I could simply use the hose like a mini shop vac to suck water from where ever.

Spring cleaning left water in all the little cubbies etc. My mini shop vac setup allowed for easy pumping excess water out.


As far as the San Juans, Yes, my bride and I have been going every year for years! We might even be there for your vacation. Our ground tackle set up is a bit different as we go in a 40 Beneteau. It has an anchor locker that holds all our chain and line. The 35lb Bruce is on a roller on the bow.

You might consider bringing your passports and checking out the Gulf Islands too!

Scott

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Postby Dayenu » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:04 am

Thanks Scott,
It would be fabulous to make arrangements to meet you up there! If you'd like you can PM me with your contact info and/or I can PM you when we get closer and have our dates finalized.

Funny you should mention Canada... One of the first things Tresa grabbed while we were up in Portland buying stuff for the boat, was a Canadian and quarantine flag! LOL!

We're also getting both our passports updated ASAP.

We both think it would be fun to add an "international" destination to our cruising itinerary!

=D

Thanks again,
Richard
What we now have, was once, only hoped for...

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Postby Kenr74 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:23 am

I have a 1977 26'. I just replaced some rotted plywood in my cabin sole last year just forward of the companionway steps. There is no access hatch in ours. The best access I found to the bilge is under the rear berths just aft of the companionway steps. The storage area under the rear berths tapers down to the midpoint of the hull. The taper is pretty rapid, and it is tough to get anything mounted very deep. I installed a small wooden shelf, and mounted an electric bilge pump there. I plumbed it to the galley sink drain. This puts the bilge pump intake at about the same level as the cabin sole, so it isn't terribly useful for draining the depths of the bilge. I just wanted something that might buy me a few minutes if I had an emergency with the keel cable tube.

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Postby EmergencyExit » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:06 am

Kenr74 wrote: I plumbed it to the galley sink drain. This puts the bilge pump intake at about the same level as the cabin sole, so it isn't terribly useful for draining the depths of the bilge. I just wanted something that might buy me a few minutes if I had an emergency with the keel cable tube.


We had the same set up on Emergency Exit when we got her, until one day I realized that the point where the bilge hose connected to the sink drain was only a few inches above the thru hull which was only a foot above the waterline ! And there was no check valve or anti siphon high loop either, just straight downhill to the bottom of that keel pocket, Yikes ! If that thru hull had started sucking water on a port tack (or if she had started to sink), it might have made a heck of a fatal siphon..

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Postby Kenr74 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:08 am

We had the same set up on Emergency Exit when we got her, until one day I realized that the point where the bilge hose connected to the sink drain was only a few inches above the thru hull which was only a foot above the waterline ! And there was no check valve or anti siphon high loop either, just straight downhill to the bottom of that keel pocket, Yikes ! If that thru hull had started sucking water on a port tack (or if she had started to sink), it might have made a heck of a fatal siphon..


I did install an anti-siphon loop quite high up. It is certainly not a perfect solution, but the best I could come up with at the time. If I kept the boat in the water, I would certainly have to work out something better.

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Postby EmergencyExit » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:01 pm

[quote="Kenr74]
I did install an anti-siphon loop quite high up. It is certainly not a perfect solution, but the best I could come up with at the time. If I kept the boat in the water, I would certainly have to work out something better.[/quote]

See there, you are much smarter than whoever owned EE before we did !
:wink:

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Postby Dayenu » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:21 pm

Hi Guys,

It's taking all I've got to post right now (I didn't want anyone thinking I wasn't appreciative. I've been sick (first cold, then stomach flu and now a bed sore that turned into an abscess (Been in bed for over two weeks.)

The cold is subsiding, the stomach issue may have also been the passing of a kidney stone and Tresa has me scheduled for outpatient surgery for the abscess... Boy, when it rains it pours! It's 2PM and I just got out of bed for the first time today and had to thank you all...

Still thinking about all this and I think I now have to decide what it is I'm actually wanting in an electric bilge pump... Larger is better, but up to what point? Hitting a submerged log and trying not to sink? A broken through hull while at anchor/mooring ball or guest slip? Where do i draw the line on how many GPH? How safe do I want/need to be...

Boat will be on a trailer most of it's life, and while cruising, will be in the water for at least one month at a time, up to 4 months (maybe a little longer).

I guess the "real protection" I'm looking for is while the boat is in the water and we're away sightseeing etc... maybe even leaving the boat alone at a dock/slip etc overnight.

Looking for GPH and brand suggestions... Over at cruisers forum there are a lot of suggestions, but mostly for larger boats on long passages... (Guess there shouldn't be a difference between the two, but worst case (or one of the worst case), scenarios are that a major hull breech flooding could be delayed by heading to shore and beaching her until repairs are made...

OK... this was more energy than I've put out in a while and I'm going back to bed...

THANK you to all who have continued to contribute in my absence!

;)

Richard
What we now have, was once, only hoped for...

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Postby monty » Wed May 03, 2017 8:17 pm

Here's a pic of the area in question. You can see how little room there is down there with the aft end of the keel trunk. I have a little Rule pump (seen on the left side) that sits down there mounted on an aluminum plate to keep it in place.

https://goo.gl/photos/A79eEXeadVTyc1MK8
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Postby Dayenu » Thu May 04, 2017 4:27 am

Thanks for the photo!
Can you explain where this photo was taken from? Trying to get a handle on what I'm seeing... I'm "thinking" the vertical wall/bulkhead is at the companionway, but the I read that you have a diesel and wonder if there's room back there to get your camera in to take this photo?

Is this pump submersible? Is it pulled out of the bilge for clarity in the photo?
Can you tell me what model rule pump this is? GPH?

Sorry for wanting so many details. :oops:

Still haven't solved our wanting an electric bilge pump, but installing a whale titan manual pump today! :) (Wish me luck)

Richard
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Postby EmergencyExit » Thu May 04, 2017 7:06 am

What you see is Monte has cut out the sole right where the steps land. So the wall at the top is that little bulkhead under the companionway and behind the steps. The bump you see at the bottom of the pic is where the keel pocket ends after it disappears into the sole behind the winch stand.

As you can see, if you cut in this area you must be very careful not to cut into the keel trunk or the hull..

Also if you were to reach under your water tank in the stern berth and feel around forward a bit, this is where you would be touching.

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Postby Dayenu » Thu May 04, 2017 8:01 am

Excellent!
Thank you!

I decided NOT to cut my cabin sole as I can reach from behind to cut through bulkhead there and insert pump...

Now I know what's waiting for me there.

Any idea what brand/MODEL pump was used?

Or dimensions (width) there?

My bilge had never been wet and we're installing the manual pump for emergencies, but I'd sure like to have an automatic electric bilge pump for when we leave the boat at anchor/mooring ball or dock in a marina to explore.

After a month on the water at the lake, we never had a drop in the bilge... I just want to "make sure"! LOL!

Thanks again!

Richard
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Postby Windwalker » Fri May 12, 2017 11:44 am

I have a Rule-Mate 750 tucked in that area, with the hose running to the stern as high as I could put the thru-hull. It discharges into the outboard well (?) and not directly out the stern.

The Rule-Mate 750 has an electronic level switch that has given me years of reliable service, but will leave an inch or two of water. The pump also has a manual activation wire that I have wired to a two position rocker switch so I can manually activate the pump when I want to. The manual switch will allow a quart or so of water to be discharged that the electronic switch just does not get.

The cabin is also a bit of a bathtub and when I had toe rail leaks the water would accumulate at the bottom of the cabin, so I cut a circle into the cabin sole under the stairs at the low point so it would drain into the bilge. A flat stainless grate on top of this hole makes it look like it was standard equipment.
Dave

1978 C26 S/V "Windwalker"

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Postby Dayenu » Fri May 12, 2017 1:36 pm

Thanks Windwalker!

Not being used to leaving our boat in the water, I just wanted something "just in case" while were at shore.

Now I'm trying to figure out where to install our Whale Titan manual bilge pump!

I'm thinking against the aft starboard side of the cockpit or on the cockpit floor.

Before I bought it and went up to look, I had planned to mount it where the cockpit windows are (Totally forgot about them!)

I do want the manual installed for our upcoming trip to the San Juans... Thinking I may have it exit out through the O/B mount well... Waiting on that one uil I'm closer to "being certain" where and how I'll install it

Meanwhile, back to work with current refitting and mods... I'm going to have to post some photos eventually... May have to be after we get back.

Just designed a wonderful GPS and fishfinder mount for the aluminum companionway boards above the galley. We have a built in depth finer and I had thought about a hinged swinging device, but we have too many instruments where it would open up to, covering them...

It incorporates a piece of teak that fits in that aluminum channel and uses a captured plastic handled bolt. I'll drill the aluminum slide and tap it. Should be super easy to install and remove and still be out of the way.

OK... Today is electrical day (part 2)... Just redid our 30A shore power system. Working on 200w solar and 120v 2 bank charger... You don't even want to know what else is on the list! LOL!

Thanks again!

Richard
What we now have, was once, only hoped for...


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