Mondays 08/10/2008 Question and boating safety Tip ANSWERED

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:28 am

Safety Tip
Fire extinguishers! We all have them! We all know what they are! We all know that we want ABC rated fire extingushers!!
When is the last time you shook up your powder extinguisher?? Have you EVER done it?? probably not. You looked at the meter, it was in the green so you left it! Don't forget the powder in these things turns into 1 big chunk if not shook up regularly! Hey, Maybe you should mount it on the outboard end of a bulk head? The healing of the boat and rocking in the waves will give it some action!! Every year you should shake up your extinguisher! Maybe rap on it with a 2X4 or hit it on the dock! Don't forget!!

Maybe Alan will post a photo of how his is mounted!!

Question for today

Here is the scene,
You and your buddies left the dock for a nice sunny and clear afternoon sail. Your marina enterance is directly into a river with a clearly marked dredged channel that leads you to open water. You've shut down the motor, hoisted the sails, and you've got to beat to windward tacking back and forth to get out of the channel. You are on starboard tack crossing the channel in hopes of making that last buoy. Coming straight down the channel is some guy in an 18' runabout. You are clearly on his starboard side and on a collision coarse. Neither boat is overtaking the other.

Who has the right of way and why??

Folks feel free to answer here, feel free to send IM's if you would like.
I know EE said you can keep to yourself and you are very welcome to do just that , but hey, I need more reading material when in meetings. So lets hear your thoughts!!

Answer will come some time Wednesday.

Banshi · Post by **Banshi** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:52 am

The sailboat under sail does, that said you still carry the responsibility to avoid the collision.

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:11 am

EE will put forth that sailboats do not always have the right of way, and then will PM Capt Scott with his answer !

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:38 am

I'm with Banshi on both points.

skyking · Post by **skyking** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:53 pm

I will agree with the first two ..

hotdot · Post by **hotdot** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:56 pm

It seems to me that the question of "Right of Way" or shall we call it the "Nautical Rules of the Road" (Chapman's Piloting) now is dependent upon whether the power boat operator is an off-duty cop and/or the sailboat helmsman, god forbid, had had an alcoholic beverage while concentrating on the wind, water and waves. Of course I'm referring to the Dinius-Perdock case. I can't tell you how discusted I am over that situation.

monty · Post by **monty** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:08 pm

the sailboat does not have right of way in a marked channel simply by the virtue of being a sailboat. I had that explained to me ,in no uncertain terms, early in my sailing career.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:01 pm

according to the sailing manual 'A sailing boat that is on a starboard tack (with the boom to port) has the right of way over a boat on the port tack. A boat on port tack (with the boom to starboard) must give way to a starboard-tack boat.'

Boats on the same tack, the windward boat must keep clear and steer to pass behind the leeward boat.

I usually stay out of the way as much as I can. Some motor-boaters do the same, and I never had a problem (I usually don't sail in a channel, I like to motor out to open waters)

Alanhod · Post by **Alanhod** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:26 pm

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:21 pm

Better safe than sorry, also don't forget that some boat owners like to sail/motor with the autopilot on while going down below to grab a beer.

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:32 pm

AHHHHH!!!

No this one stirred some interest and I hope to do that with all of them!

Sorry folks! No hints and no answer until Wednesday!

However I might say that . . . . . .

Ah never mind . . . . .

WEDNESDAY! LOL!!!!

Captain Scott

matt · Post by **matt** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:03 am

I think the sailboat has right of way over the power boat unless the power boat has less maneuverability. Both vessels are responsible for avoiding collision.

Starboard or leeward tack, I believe, only comes into play if there are two sailboats involved.

Leeway · Post by **Leeway** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:56 am

The general rule is that the boat that has the other on its starboard side must give right away (sail, power, or both). Given the facts, since the sail boat is on the power boats starboard side the power boat must yield right of way.

However, if there is a risk of collision then both boats must do whatever possible to avoid a collision. If there is a collision then both boats are at fault.

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:49 am

ANSWER:
The power boat has right of way or is the "Stand on Vessal"!

Here, I will repeat the question and highlight the important clues to the answer. I will then explain.

Here is the scene,
You and your buddies left the dock for a nice sunny and clear afternoon sail. Your marina enterance is directly into a river with a clearly marked dredged channel that leads you to open water. You've shut down the motor, hoisted the sails, and you've got to beat to windward tacking back and forth to get out of the channel. You are on starboard tack crossing the channel in hopes of making that last buoy. Coming straight down the channel is some guy in an 18' runabout. You are clearly on his starboard side and on a collision coarse. Neither boat is overtaking the other.

If you read the CFR's you will see that the clearly marked channel is key and a special case. The CFR's do NOT indicate any special pecking order for sailboats in a channel. So the fact that you are a sailboat AND sailing is irrelevant. The next issue is you are crossing a clearly marked channel. CFR's clearly state ALL Vessals crossing a channel must give way to ANY vessal in the channel going up or down the channel. So . . . Even though you are to starboard where you normally are the stand on vessal, you must give way to any vessal if you are crossing the channel.

Please note these are my ramblings and my interpretations of the law.

Also:
As stated above, ALL vessals are required to take action if a collision is eminent. So . . . if you are the stand on vessal and collide with another vessal, you are indeed liable too.

Scott

Banshi · Post by **Banshi** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:17 am

I don't think that is correct because he is not limited to the channel by any depth requirements and therefore is not following the channel in any strict sense. Since he under power and he is the more maneuverable vessel he should adjust his course regardless of the channel location. Only if adjusting his course would risk him running aground or colliding with some other vessel would he have the "right of way".

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:29 am

Either sail or motor boat, if you are the 'give-way' vessel, you have to give way, simple as that.

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:13 am

Guess I'll get out my CFR's and look up the specific test! LOL!

Scott

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:47 am

" A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the safe passage of a power-driven vessel following a traffic lane.
"

Like Monty, I too had this one explained to me early in my sailing learning curve, which is what I PM'd to Scott Monday
EE

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:24 pm

In most cases the sailboat should avoid the collision and Capt Scott is right on with the clearly marked channel and the other reason is most powered vessels of that size do not use common sence.

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:13 am

I could have sworn my Chapman's has words to the effect of "where the other vessel is constricted by depth.." I'll have to look it up.

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:28 am

Here's what I was quoting above

USCG
RULE 10
TRAFFIC SEPARATION SCHEMES

See 10 (j)..

EE

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:59 am

EE,
Interesting, there is no mention of depth restrictions there, so it would be true of any marked traffic lane, which sort of makes sense to me.

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:14 am

Now we all know why Lawyers exist!!!

Scott

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:58 pm

Rule 18(d) is the one you may be thinking of, it carries that verbiage. The heading of the rule, tho, says "Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require"