Guess What's Inside a C-22 Starboard Settee?

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Mon May 23, 2011 6:00 pm

Well, it ain't Jimmy Hoffa!

At least not in mine.

So, a few weeks ago, I cut open the settee to start removing saturated foam that was causing my boat to list. Thought that if I took the downhill foam out, the water would just drain into the opening and allow the remaining foam to dry out. No such luck!

Here's a shot of what i started with today. Note the dry glass on the inside hull wall. The foam looks and feels very dry:

Once I start removing foam, here comes the water. So bazaar! It's like cutting into an overripe watermellon! As soon as you violate a section, the water just starts seaping out of that section. Note the wet glass under the portion I just removed and the water flowing along the bottom of the opening (right hand side.) Keep in mind, this has been open for weeks. This stuff just holds on to water!

So I pulled out a 2-3 foot section and went back and pulled out the remaining portions of foam from under the settee top (left side, in photo.)

At the end of the day, a good amount cleared out:

Yes Sir, yes Sir! Three bags full! I didn't weigh them but these bags were easily at max weigh holding capacity. 75 lbs here, if there's an ounce. Hope they don't break before the garbageman gets them into the truck!

Hopefully tomorrow sees the job finished, fingers crossed the weather holds!

So if yer boat lists, this is what yer up against. But like was stated by another, look at all the extra storage!

Cheers!

hp18carr · Post by **hp18carr** » Mon May 23, 2011 6:44 pm

I had heard a C22 had foam back in the aft section, but I never dreamed it would be that much. Makes one wounder what was its true intent in the first place if it holds water so jealously.

Terrence
Wilmington N.C.
Chrysler 26' 1980
Pandora (for now)

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Mon May 23, 2011 8:08 pm

All I can say is . . . .

WOW!

Scott

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Tue May 24, 2011 4:21 am

They only expected it to get wet once and in one way- and if it did it staying wet was the least of your problems...

Jmckamey · Post by **Jmckamey** » Tue May 24, 2011 4:25 am

New sail locker!!

Bhacurly · Post by **Bhacurly** » Tue May 24, 2011 6:26 am

Someplace to store the spinnaker and whisker poles too!

Thanks for sharing

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Tue May 24, 2011 6:46 am

I've said it before and I'll say it again - how come you 22 guys got flotation and us 26 guys got lead ?

Banshi · Post by **Banshi** » Tue May 24, 2011 1:52 pm

I think your question contains the answer...........at some point the amount of flotation needed just becomes to much versus useful space on the boat.

Beady · Post by **Beady** » Tue May 24, 2011 2:05 pm

Mine looked about the same. I am going to cut a bigger hole but that will wait until next winter. Keep posting pictures of how you finish it out.
Brian

Alanhod · Post by **Alanhod** » Tue May 24, 2011 2:25 pm

EmergencyExit wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again - how come you 22 guys got flotation and us 26 guys got lead ?

Well, the C-26 owners paid a lot more for there boats then the C-22 buyers. So the C-26 owners got metal and the cheaper C-22's got foam, later soaked in water to simulate led.

I must admit I like the new storage locker idea. However, the designed in safety flotation is now gone. Granted when it was soaking wet how much floatation was it going to provide

Now remember I'm the guy who is a strong swimmer but ALWAYS has his PDF on while sailing.

That being said. I think I would look for some replacement flotation and close that section back up with a door of some kind.

Oh, I know, put in a nice big locker door on this settee and store all your extra PDF's that no one wears in there. Then you have floatation and storage all in one.

Thanks
Alan

bryan · Post by **bryan** » Tue May 24, 2011 2:49 pm

Hey cool mcrandall, pretty amazing pics there. My next question though is how are you going to cover that big hole? It looks like making it an extra storage area is a popular idea so I'd be very interested in how you go about this - if you can, please provide info and photos if and when.

Thanks!

Bryan

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Tue May 24, 2011 3:14 pm

Yep. Just finished the removal job this afternoon. Another two bags of very heavy foam! I poked and proded back under the end that I didn't cut open until I reached about where the wood bulkhead is on top of the settee. Tough work!!! Can NOT imagine trying to pull that stuff out without opening it up!

Haven't decided about how I'll cover it yet. Probably a hatch aft and a hinged cover forward, but I dunno. Thinking along the lines of installing battery boxes aft. Hows a drop-in cooler with seat cover on top sound forward? Yeah, plenty of options to stew over. Likely clean-up the cutout and put some framing in there to stiffen it back up before I finish it. Promise I'll shoot pictures and post for you all!

I do believe that foam stuff would provide good floatation for a time. But the state it was in my boat, I'm betting very little. In this case, none is better. Thought about replacing with containers or another type of foam, but not sure of the benefit. Think the space will do just fine!

astrorad · Post by **astrorad** » Wed May 25, 2011 5:31 pm

Some of the chrome buttons that close up the holes where they injected the foam during manufacture were gone on my C22, so I cut a 24 inch length of 1/2 inch thinwall conduit and filed the one end to make a sort of hole punch. Next I took it and pushed and rotated it down some of the holes
in the settee to take core samples of the foam.

The thickest stuff toward the center of the boat showed moisture about 2 inches from the bottom of the foam...wasn't getting moisture closer to the starboard side where the foam is thinner...

mcrandall...was your foam wet all the way up to the top? I don't know if I should tackle taking mine out. I am guessing that the water infiltrates in from the toerail/hull/deck joint and leaking portlights.

Is there also foam up front under the forward berth? If so it doesn't look like they injected it through any holes like the starboard se

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Wed May 25, 2011 7:21 pm

I'll tell you Bill, it was a good 100% humidity in there. Botton of the fiberglass sandwich was wet and the cardboard corigation was well soaked.

I did something similar by taking a 3/4-inch auger bit and ran it all the way down through one of those holes. Moisture found at the bottom, but little further up, so no, not soaked all the way through, just bottlom 2-inches or so were 100% saturated, the upper part was almost dry--almost.

I'm with you on the source, that's why I (permanently) resealed the seam and will additionally seal (probably 4000) when the toerail goes on. Don Casey even comments on glassing this type of joint to eliminate leaks. I guess if my solution doesn't do the job, glassing it will be an option. I'll be re-doing all the ports and the hardware too. Got a bunch of butyl tape, so that's one of my next projects.

The area under the v-birth has me baffled. I'm tempted to cut it open just to see, maybe the 4-inch hole saw. Probably not..... Maybe THAT's where Jimmy is!

Cheers!

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Wed May 25, 2011 8:40 pm

The question of where the water is coming from interests me. It seems this is too common for everyone to have leaking seams. I'm wondering if it is condensation from the hull that, once condensed, has no viable means of evaporating. This poses no simple solution but does make all of us susecptable to this condition.

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Wed May 25, 2011 9:30 pm

It might be some condensation, but I'm betting on the seam because: When I pulled the toerail off, there was mud packed up under it and up under the seam. Nasty! Sure that was wicking water each time it rained. Also, we're talking probably 40+ gallons of water based on the weight of the foam I pulled and the fact that me (250 lbs) way out on the port side, could not level the boat completely in the water.

I also found water on the shelves after rains.

Any other breaches, like ports and hardware could drain that way too.

Don't know for sure, but that's my suspicion.