Starting my C-22 painting project... Any advice is welcome!

[Zac Penn]

Today I went to Lowes and purchased the wood I needed to make my boat stands....
4 - 4 x 4 x 8' posts
3 - 2 x 4 x 8' boards
1 - 4' x 8' x 1/2" OSB
$55 total in materials

I already had a coil nailer and some nails so that is not included in the price. I used two pieces of cardboard screwed together to get the angle for the bow, and I used a level and measuring tape to figure out the bow for the transom.

I am pretty confident that the 4x4's will be strong enough to carry the load but I will not get under the boat until I have sured everything up and shaken like crazy to make sure it isn't going anywhere. Hopefully tomorrow I will be jacking up the trailer and setting the stands under the boat. If you guys see anything that really concerns you please let me know asap so I can fix the issue before it is too late.

Oh yeah I am going to place foam on the bow stand and some spare carpeting on the transom stand so the wood/nails don't cause any issues with the fiberglass.

Zac

[windnutlarry]

I made a temporary frame on the order of yours to get my 1100lb American Fiberglass Mini-Tonner off the trailer so I could get jack stands under it. The horizontal 4x4 had noticeable deflection holding up half of that boat, so yours would appear to be understrength. To be fair, I did not have the the corner braces due to trailer clearance. When I put it back on the trailer, I used two 2x6's bolted together, which was no problem. If yours works to get it off, I would then put a couple of vertical 4x4 legs under it about a foot either side of the centerline. Dropping the swing keel takes some of weight off the stands.

[OutnBacker]

With all due respect, this has issues that jump right out at me. I've done a fair amount of building so take it for what it's worth.

1. The timbers are treated, which induces brittleness. It's fine for posts, but very questionable for side loads, or, in this case, a 3000# boat load. 4X4's are generally not taken from the part of the tree with the greatest sideload strength, unlike joist cuts like 2X6 or bigger.

2. If you are going to use 4X4, place the cross beam ON TOP of the posts.

3. If you are going to use 4X4's, add support under the beams about 1/3 inboard from the posts. Or, double the 4X4 beams.

4. Add support to the bow cradle that will prevent it from kicking out laterally. There should be a ^^ there, not an M.

5. Consider making the "feet" longer to strengthen the resistance to for and aft sway.

Good idea on the stern cradle.

[Zac Penn]

With the OSB on each corner the free span of the 4x4 is only 55" and the load will be 1500 lbs per cradle. I will have some vertical posts ready if I see too much deflection in the beams.

Cutting two more 2x4's to create the ^^ for the bow will be easy enough and I should have noticed that from the beginning

I will let you guys know how it goes. If you don't hear from me again you know it ended badly

[EmergencyExit]

Also could sister some 3/4" plywood on the vertical beam faces for a quick and easy addition if strength is an issue. And then adding a brace from front cradle to back cradle to connect them would ease any rocking.

Hey, are you just doing the bottom paint, or painting the hull too ?

[Zac Penn]

Also could sister some 3/4" plywood on the vertical beam faces for a quick and easy addition if strength is an issue. And then adding a brace from front cradle to back cradle to connect them would ease any rocking.

Hey, are you just doing the bottom paint, or painting the hull too ?

We are going to paint both the bottom and Hull. I guess we should probably paint the hull first, then tape off the waterline and then use the ablative paint? Or does it not matter?

[EmergencyExit]

I'd tape the waterline first so it didn't get lost, then do the hull first then the bottom. That ablative gets real messy and you'd rather not get it above waterline then have to get it off to paint the hull!

For what its worth I used the Brightsides single part to paint a Cal 21 and had great results as far as smooth mirror finish but found it got skinned up easily. I painted Blue over white and everyime I banged the dock white came thru..Painted a C26 with old school RustOLeum Marine Topsides Paint, and although it didn't flow out as well it was more durable. Haven't done the two part Interlux or the AwlGrip yet so can't comment on them..

[tgentry]

If you're using the roll and tip method, try to pick a non-windy day. I had issues with wind drying the surface before it could completely flow out. Other than that, it's really pretty straight forward. Sand and prep according to instructions, mask well, and always keep a wet edge to avoid getting ridges.

If you score the waterline and boot stripe with a utility knife, you'll be able to see it through the paint.

Bottom paint is super easy. Just make sure your new paint is compatible with your old. I wasn't sure, so I removed all the old bottom paint. Then just roll it on.

FWIW, I used Pettit Easypoxy for topsides and Pettit Hydrocoat for the bottom. I am very pleased with both. The Easypoxy is not nearly as durable as one of the two part epoxies, but it's easy to touch up. The Hydrocoat does a good job for us in Lake Michigan.

[EZFEED]

Hold up....is there no one who will let you bum their lift system???? No one close by in our group here?

If you were close to lafayette, LA I'd let you use mine so you'd have a safe support.

[Smier]

After looking at your thread on sailnet and this one, I have serious reservations and believe that there is a very good chance your cradles will fail. OSB is not a structural material and the design does not carry the load onto the vertical 4x4 posts. Also particle board deteriorates when it gets wet and begins to swell. Your OSB triangles would work great to keep things from racking side to side if there were structural support underneath them, but there isn't... Triangulation is your friend, but first you need the 4x4 posts UNDER the main span! That 2x4 kicker underneath isn't capable of holding 1500# for long because it is installed in a shear situation. If your racks do hold the boat long enough to get the trailer out, I would immediately add blocking under the boat to help support it, and do not allow children to play on or around it. I would also add supports to tie the two racks together.

[OutnBacker]

"...the design does not carry the load onto the vertical 4x4 posts."

= put the beams on top of the posts, as well as the other stuff.

[Zac Penn]

After negotiating a forklift around the trailer tire, and using two high lifts on the other side we were able to raise the boat/trailer high enough to get the stands under them.



Once the boat was lowered onto the stands I checked the amount of deflection at the center on each stand and it was 1" at the bow and 1/2" at the stern. I kept the trailer 1" below the boat for about 30 minutes to see if it would sag any further. I also shook the boat like crazy to see if the stands would give. It was ROCK solid!!!!! I used ratchet straps on the toe rail to secure the boat to the stands and keep it from rocking side to side. I am going to get two more straps just for safety.

Even though the deflection looked reasonable for me I still wanted to place vertical post in the center to help carry the load. It raised the bow 1/2" and stern 1/4" to keep it nice and loaded.



I am going to get some long 2x4's and brace the two stands together and sure it up a little more. Either way it worked great, and I am happy.

Zac

PS. The pictures make things look much more deformed than they really are. I paid very close attention to everything and made sure it was safe.

[EmergencyExit]

SWEET !

[OutnBacker]

SWEET !

I would say, gutsy. Wear your hardhat.

Kidding.

I think you'll be fine with the support mid-beam if you're not going to put the beam on top. Definitely cross brace lengthwise.

[Smier]

Man, that makes me wish I had those lifts... Glad to hear it's solid. So what's the painting plans?

[EZFEED]

Dude thats pretty dangerous, I see you also didnt move that 4X4 either.....be careful.

[Zac Penn]

I appreciate the warnings and believe me I have too much to loose to work under something that is unstable. As I have said before it is ROCK SOLID and does not have any play. The kickers are holding just fine, the OSB is not deforming.

My dad and I spent five hours today under there with an orbital sander removing the old bottom paint and scratched up the hull paint. Here are some action shots of the old man working it...
This is what it used to look like...


And what we brought it back down to...


It looks like we got all the way to the old gel coat and roughed it up real nice. There were a couple spots were the gelcoat was cracking so we cut them out and sanded the area real well. We are going to use Bondo Fiberglass Resin Jelly to fill the holes then sand them smooth. That is as far as we know what to do so far. This is where you guys can really help us.

West Marine is the only marine store around that i know of and when we went there yesterday we talked to someone and he recommended the following products...
Interlux water barrier
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... gaLuhag020
Ablative Bottom Paint
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... sNum=50230
Brightside Precoat
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... gaMDBag020
Brightside Paint
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... sNum=50231

We want to hold onto this boat for at least a couple years and we will be leaving it in the water for hopefully 2 years before having to remove it and recoat the bottom. I want to go with black for the bottom paint and a high gloss white for the hull. Can you please provide me with your recommendations for painting supplies and whether or not primers are really necessary. It looks to me as though the hull has not been painted for a VERY long time because I kept sanding and sanding and the color nor consistency never changed so I figure it was the gelcoat?

I almost forgot...
What is the best prep I can do for the keel? As you can see the rust is coming through the old paint, and sanding it is not going to work do to the deep pits in the lead. I could wire wheel it, but was hoping the bottom paint would stick to it without too much prep work???? Please let me know if I need to get off the pipe hahaha

So sum it up lets please bring the conversation around to painting supplies and not about the boat stands

Thanks again for your help,
Zac

[OutnBacker]

Okay, okay. I won't comment on the lack of a hard hat!

But, I will say that the keel looks fantastic compared with virtually all other pics I've seen of these things. Mine is pretty good, too, so I don't have advice on how to improve on yours. I would say that from the pic, you don't have that much to do there.

[Zac Penn]

I am happy with it's condition, but I am wondering about adding the bottom paint to it.
Does it need some kind of special primer or just the same stuff being used on the rest of the bottom?
Seeing as how it is lead does it need the expensive primer that has those waterproofing shield things or should I use the primer that is being used for the hull paint?

Blah blah blah hahahaha

[OutnBacker]

Can't say. But I've heard that some guys use some kind of epoxy primer or something. Before that, a rust neutralizer after wire brushing off theloose stuff.

It won't be long til more experienced people chime in. You're very lucky with the condition of that keel.

[windnutlarry]

FYI: The swing keel is cast iron, not lead. It can be sandblasted, primed and painted, then bottom coated. You do not want barnacles on the keel or up in the keel slot, jamming it. Especially if you want to leave it in the water for two years. We only have Zebra mussels here in WI, and our four month sailing season helps us keep the little critters manageable.

[N41EF]

Your keel looks new compared to mine. My keel was painted with an epoxy, then had rusted below the paint and it came off in 1/16th thick chunks. I used a welders chipping hammer, then a rust remover disc in an angle grinder. I painted three coats or rustoleum rusty metal primer, then sprayed color once it was back in the boat.

If you do plan to keep it in the water, I'd to the rusty primer, then a top coat, then anti fouling over that.

I posted a thread about painting the boat, and another about replacing the keel brackets, there are pic there.

[Zac Penn]

I did see your thread about the keel and want to fully drop it so I can sand blast it, and then get it painted before it goes back in. This will also give me ample room to put antifoul paint up in the keel channel area (sorry don't know most of the names for different parts of the boat)

I am also considering changing the paint to a water based bottom paint...
Hydrocoat SR...
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... godtRag020

Anyone have experience with this compared to the PCA Gold?

[astrorad]

tgentry said earlier in this post that he used Hydrocoat and he is happy with how it works in Lake Michigan...fresh water

[Banshi]

Stopped by and introduced myself today, they are doing the work next to our office, same year and color scheme mine was. I can show you how to step that mast when the time comes.

[EmergencyExit]

Stopped by and introduced myself today, they are doing the work next to our office, same year and color scheme mine was. I can show you how to step that mast when the time comes.

Now that is just too cool ! Right next door..

[Zac Penn]

Stopped by and introduced myself today, they are doing the work next to our office, same year and color scheme mine was. I can show you how to step that mast when the time comes.

I wish I would have been at the warehouse when you came by. My dad said he talked to you. What a small world!!!!!!

[Zac Penn]

Well tomorrow is the day for paint to start getting applied. The weather is crappy, but the tarp is giving us a great work area. I got the surface all cleaned up today and we will be applying the Interlux Interprotect 2000E water barrier tomorrow (hopefully at least two coats based on a 3 hr waiting period, but preferably 3 coats) then we want to do at least two coats of either the PCA Gold or Hydrocoat SR for bottom paint, and then we will drop it back on the trailer and put everyone's mind at ease hahahaha

Zac

[Zac Penn]

Today started off pretty rotten with it raining and our tarp springing a couple leaks, but we made a drip edge out of some tape on the upper portion of the hull so that if anything leaked down from the toe rail it would drop off the tape before running onto the bottom of the hull.

I used the Interlux water barrier...
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... gaLuhag020

I was assuming that I would be able to get two coats out of the gallon sized kit, and since it is a two part system, I needed to measure out the part one in half. The Part one is 3 quarts and Part two is 1 quart. 3 quarts = 96 Fl Oz and half of that is 48 Fl Oz so I used a 16 OZ Red Solo Cup and filled it up three times and scraped out as much as I could from the cup, then filled a second solo cup with Part two and mixed them together. Rolled on the first coat, messed around in the shop, and got some lunch, then rolled on the second coat. I painted a good 6" or so above the water line just to make sure the hull would be sealed nicely and I used up all of the gallon kit. I will need to buy a quart sized kit to finished where the boat stands are.

These pictures are right after I finished so you can still see some roller marks etc...






When I was at West Marine I looked at their roller cover chart and it said the only type of roller to use with the epoxy paint was the expensive foam rollers so i bought two of them. Well they did not hold up for even a single coat and started to break apart and leave foam chunks in the paint. Next time I go back there I am going to ask for my money back...

[Banshi]

I always used the small 4 " rollers from home depot and never had any issues with them.