Is this bad?

[matt]

Hey guys,
Our boat is a C-22, and we've had her for about 4 years now.

I was getting the boat ready for our first overnight of the season, and I found some water in the port compartment where the keel pin is. Additionally, there appears to be some wood in there that seems wet, moldy, and starting to rot.

Am I correct that the pin that is accessible from this compartment and also from the cabin via a cover is the pivot for the keel? Is the post above it the stop for the keel? The starboard side of the pin is pretty dry.

My real question is, should I abandon my two day excursion where I'll be spending the night on a mooring?

Below is a picture of inside the compartment looking at what the rottyness.

[astrorad]

Matt...the pipe with pipe cap houses the nylon/teflon rod that is supposed to apply side pressure to the keel so it doesn't slop around while sailing. I have read that you are supposed to tighten the pipe cap to increases pressure against the side of the keel.

You should be able to see the rod projecting from the keel trunk from below with a flashlight shining up on the port side of the keel just aft of the pivot brackets. You can inspect the condition of your brackets at the same time.

I don't know if there is any wood in that assembly as I haven't done my brackets yet. Capt. Scott would probably be the man to ask. This is an area that seems to be the weak link as far as leakage goes on these boats.

Hope this helps a little............................Bill

[Bhacurly]

Hi Matt,

First, how much is some water? Is the boat in a slip or on a trailer?

Yup the function is like Bill said,,, but in reality (IMHO) it's a POS that doesn't do anything on an older boat but create problems. For example, mine leaked also, and it had the keel shoved over into the starboard side of the keel trunk and the keel had rubbed all the gelcoat off the glass on that side..

There is obviously a fair amount of rot,,, so it isn't new. Your correct in what you've observed is the keel pin area, and that may not be an issue for the leak. The keel pin isn't supported by the wood coring if I remember rightly, but maybe Capt Scott can confirm that...

So if it's a slow leak you may think you'd be jus fine for an over nighter, or any sailing really, BUT, any pressure from the keel bangin into that teflon rod could change things in a hurry, and of course it would change in the most inappropriate time. Mine had water marks in that cubby of at least 8-10 inches of water.

Unfortunately any fix is gonna be a pain. Just having limited access on the keel side will be a challenge... Others may have a better idea,, but for a temporary solution, you can get under the boat and carefully slide the keel all the way to starboard with a pry bar, don't wanna make things worse by cracking glass in the keel trunk! This may let you see the teflon rod and offending area from the keel trunk. I would then remove the POS unit and clean, dry, and seal the area. For mine, an I hate to admit it but it worked well, I put tape on the keel trunk side, and multiple layers of 5200 held from the inside also with tape until it cured, then trimmed the excess with a razor. Your basically filling the hole with 5200 so it takes a while to fully cure. So if you do it, don't pull the tape off the keel side until the tape comes off from the inside and the 5200 has set or it'll run down the side and make a mess, I know, and it's a bugger to clean in there.

I did mine with the keel out, so you'd be doing all that cleaning and taping in the keel trunk with maybe 3/8 to 1/2 inch to work in, I said it would be a pain, but not impossible...

Of course the proper fix would be to drop the keel, re-core that rotten wood area, seal it all up with new fiberglass, and make a better slop preventer for the keel.

Hopefully others will have a nice easy solution for your dilemma.

Good luck!
Billy

[Jmckamey]

Hello Matt. If I may, I am currently working this area on my boat at this time and can offer you some techicnal knowledge.
First, Yes the lower fitting is the keel pin bracket. The pin can removed from the port side only as the bracket on the starboard side is closed. The pin is removed via a slide hammer as the pin is drilled and tapped on the end. There is no wood in the area of the keel pin brackets.
As for the fitting you see above and aft, this fitting is made up on off the shelf one inch steel pipe fittings from lowes/HD and yes it houses a teflon/nylon rod that keeps the keel from banding and thus extends the life of the keel pin and pin hole not to mention allowing the crew to get a peacefull nights sleep. My 24' mac did not have this feature and bang bang all night. The base is a "Floor" fitting and it is thru bolted thru the hull. Now for the rub, IMHO. The pipe that is screwed into the floor fitting does not go all the way thru the hull. The wood in this area is sealed only with sealing compound and for whatever reason this seal has given up and is leaking. Not addresed this will cause much dammage to the structure in this area. You could poke the area with a scribe or small screw driver to get an idea of how deep the rot is.
As for going sailing, If you droped the boat in the water and you noticed this right off then you might have a problem. If the boat has been in the water for some time then this might be a different story. There are some sealing products out there that will seal and cure while wet. A temp. sealing job around the floor fitting could get you by for now.
From the way the cap looks as compaired to the way mine looked I don't think you will be able to unscrew any of those fittings. I had to remove mine from the boat, then I could'nt even press out the nylon pin out with a 20 ton press. Ended up breaking the floor fitting in half. Can you say hack saw?
To ansewer your question. Yes this is a bad thing. It is not going to get any better or will it stop its progression if left alone. But, I'd go sailing after a temp fix.
If you like, I could send you some pics of the area as I will be installing my brackets and fittings today. Jeff

[matt]

Thanks for all the insight, guys!

To answer some of the questions, we've had the boat in for the last 4 summers in a slip. We sail her about 4 hours per week on average. When I discovered this problem, there was about an inch of water in the compartment and some mold. I'm not sure how long the water had been accumulating, but I'd say we inspected it at least as recently as June.

Clearly, we need to address the rot and the rod, but I'm inclined to keep an eye on it, and leave it until the end of the season unless it's getting worse.

My concern is that since we usually only sail a few hours a week, if we go do a six hour ride tomorrow, followed by a six hour sail home the next day, are we setting ourselves up for trouble?

We'll try and get down there today and see if any more water has built up. We had gone out friday with 5 folks on board and sailed her pretty hard.

Does the rod press against the keel when it's fully lowered?

[Jmckamey]

I should'nt think any harm will come form sailing her. I'm thinking that that fitting is above the water line when just floating around. To answer your Q, The rod is in contact with the keel at all times due to the shape of the top of the keel.

[Banshi]

I had to replace the plywood for exactly the same reason, the keel lock down fitting was all but corroded away and leaking. It really wasn't that bad once I got into it but the encapsulating glass will need to be cut out on the inside. I did away with the locking pin myself. I replaced the plywood and reglassed it in. This wood adds support to the trunk to distribute the load at the keel pin brackets.

[CapnJeff]

What was the final fix for this? I'm in the same situation now. The plywood is all rotten in that area. I'm considering removing all of the ply along with the adjustment post, glassing the resulting hole, and inserting new plywood.

[Papax3]

Hey there!
Yes it's bad, but the only way I'd become scared is if the swing keel started banging away in a bad set of hobby horsing waves... In that situation, the whole thing could destabilize. Otherwise it shouldn't simply collapse. Make sure you sail with another boat... Someone would be there for you if the a nightmare happens.

Get it fixed at the end of the season (for sure):

What you're going to discover, is that the keel pin itself is fine, but i assure you, fine sir, the {brackets} that hold that keel pin are absolutely toast/rust-rotted/on the verge of collapse after 40-ish years of service. Like many others, I recently replaced the whole shebang. You will need someone to make you keel-pin brackets to hold the (800lb.) keel. Cap't Scott has stellar pictures that helped me through my replacement. 3M-5200 marine caulk to seal everything, then paint over everything to be positive it won't leak.
Jack the boat up, and really get your head around just how heavy 800lbs. Is. Don't play games, or you could get hurt. What worked extremely well for me, is to double cement blocks under the keel, lower back end of keel down on the blocks, leaving space for a jack at the front end of the keel. Get that jack tight, cut the pin on both sides with a saws all/metal cutting blade, then lower it down level... Here's the great part: never remove the keel from the pocket, but use round metal rod between the keel and the blocks to roll it back out of the way. Fix everything, and it would benefit you to brace your boat to prevent it from rolling while working on it. I made a round template of the boat's bottom from 2x8's, and ran a strap around it Very tightly, to prevent any rotation... While your working, keep your body on the centerline of the boat when you're inside it. Once done...hey!, you're good for another 40 years!

They're really great boats... Do the right thing, and keep it in the family.

Bill

Rotted wood: replace it, then fiberglass over it. Use Marine grade plywood.