So me and the girlfriend were out sailing today, heading straight down wind. Then all the sudden it lunged forward like a hellacious breeze caught it and started to porous left and right uncontrollably before it capacised. With the mast sticking straight down/belly up it was obvious what had happened....the keel broke off and now resides at the bottom of the lake. 4 hrs, 10 guys, and a few boats we finally got it righted and drained. Cell phones, ipod and other electronics ruined...wallet gone. What a terrible day!!! This thing was a nightmare to right! The guy i bought the boat from said it was self righting, is that true if the keel was still intact? Also, when we finally got this thing sunny side up it was barely floating...if it had a 900 lb hunk of steel hanging from it I cant imagine that it would still be in sight. Am i wrong here? What to most people do when the cabin is filled to the brim with water?
PS looking for a swing keel for a c22....
c22 self righting??? not with keel at bottom of lake!!!
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Chrysler20%26
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vary sad story
Vary sad story, Thank you for the post, may other C-22 owners take notice. Sary about your boat an all the gear, boat can be fixed an gear can be replaced. That must have been the ride of a life time. One I am sure you will never forget. At least no one was heart
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Mario G
Yes the keel makes a major differance is righting any sailboat. The filled to the brim but not sank is another nice factor about the C-22.
have you checked tension on the keel hoist cable? I've heard of others losing there pin but the keel was still attached by cable.... it could have been shallow water also.
Sorry wish I could have helped.
have you checked tension on the keel hoist cable? I've heard of others losing there pin but the keel was still attached by cable.... it could have been shallow water also.
Sorry wish I could have helped.
First , thankfully everyone is safe. Have you any idea what failed, the pin or the bracket, have you been able to get in to remove the acess plate?
It has always been my biggest fear that the keel would fail underway. We lost the cable once while sitting on the mooring and the keel swinging back punched a nice hole in the forward end of the slot. We got a call from the marina telling us the boat was listing on the mooring and when we got out to it there was water inside up to the level of the step into the cock pit. We got someone to go out with a pump, but it was coming in as fast as he could pump it out with a large commercial pump. He was able to tow it about 200 yards to the beach, in a raging storm, with two pumps going the whole time and told us he nearly lost her before he was able to beach her at high tide on her side.
They will still float with alot of water. It took about four hours of bailing and hand pumping to empty the boat and we patched the baseball sized hole. Tide came in and she righted herself.
You will probably have a better idea of what happened when you pull her. Any damage to the rigging?
Good luck with the reapirs. As for finding a swing keel, aren't there some folks on here with parts boats, maybe someone will part with the keel.
It has always been my biggest fear that the keel would fail underway. We lost the cable once while sitting on the mooring and the keel swinging back punched a nice hole in the forward end of the slot. We got a call from the marina telling us the boat was listing on the mooring and when we got out to it there was water inside up to the level of the step into the cock pit. We got someone to go out with a pump, but it was coming in as fast as he could pump it out with a large commercial pump. He was able to tow it about 200 yards to the beach, in a raging storm, with two pumps going the whole time and told us he nearly lost her before he was able to beach her at high tide on her side.
They will still float with alot of water. It took about four hours of bailing and hand pumping to empty the boat and we patched the baseball sized hole. Tide came in and she righted herself.
You will probably have a better idea of what happened when you pull her. Any damage to the rigging?
Good luck with the reapirs. As for finding a swing keel, aren't there some folks on here with parts boats, maybe someone will part with the keel.
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EmergencyExit
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Horrifying to read. Also glad all are okay.
Our club had a Starwind 22 sink in a storm, also had a broken keel cable as Fran described, I think the same thing happened to it.
tnc, when you catch your breath fill us in some more. I'm guessing from your description she floated after bailing, so I suppose you didn't have a bracket break loose ? Must have lost the pin AND the cable ?
The Starwind here was parted out I think (after it was raised Hurricane Gustav dropped a tree on it and cut it in half), and the keel may have been sold for scrap, but I'll ask. Not sure how you'd ship that thing, tho.
Our club had a Starwind 22 sink in a storm, also had a broken keel cable as Fran described, I think the same thing happened to it.
tnc, when you catch your breath fill us in some more. I'm guessing from your description she floated after bailing, so I suppose you didn't have a bracket break loose ? Must have lost the pin AND the cable ?
The Starwind here was parted out I think (after it was raised Hurricane Gustav dropped a tree on it and cut it in half), and the keel may have been sold for scrap, but I'll ask. Not sure how you'd ship that thing, tho.
Looks to me like the pin sheared, and then the cable broke... I have only had the boat a couple months and was going to sail her this summer and restore it this winter, at which time I would have reworked the keel and none of this would have happened. I may have been to blame here...I had the keel ALL the way down...no tension in the cable...is this a bad thing? Just thought the more depth the better on this very windy day.
As far as shipping, I would consider driving a good ways to get a replacement...
I'm sure there are plenty of c22 out there that have been abandoned...just a matter of finding one.
As far as shipping, I would consider driving a good ways to get a replacement...
I'm sure there are plenty of c22 out there that have been abandoned...just a matter of finding one.
Generally keelboats are self righting, unless something catastrophic happens (like losing the keel) or if they are poorly designed (too much sail area and not enough/improperly designed underwater foil). It's all about the physics of the underwater foil vs the sails. I've been knocked down several times flying the spinnaker, the boats have always come up and pointed into the wind as soon as either the sheet or halyard was blown.
Very sorry about your accident, hope nobody was injured. Good luck finding a new keel.
Very sorry about your accident, hope nobody was injured. Good luck finding a new keel.
klassi1
'77 C-22
'77 C-22
The boat will usually round up into the wind as soon as the boat heels over far enough that the wind is dumped off the sails or the sheet is eased. When a boat is intact, it will happen very quickly. Rail in the water but nothing in the cockpit or cabin. The physics of a sailboat is a balancing act. Without one part balancing the other, ie a missing keel, everything is out the window.
During a race an errant puff in heavy air hit the spinnaker. The boat was knocked completely over and we were being drug sideways. The spinnaker sheet jammed so we were not able to ease it enough for the sail to collapse. The main and mast were completely underwater, the cockpit filled with water and some into the cabin. As soon as somebody could get to the halyard and release it, the boat swung upright and into the wind. We finished the race and actually placed.
I've jib broached (knocked down) a Ultimate 20 sailboat while racing many times. The boat was new to us and we finally learned to decelerate off a plane before rounding the jib mark with the spinnaker. Took water into the cockpit and cabin. But again, with the boat intact, it did just as it's designed to and rounded up.
These are extremes and happened while we were racing. Typically you will not have water in the cockpit, much less, in the cabin.
During a race an errant puff in heavy air hit the spinnaker. The boat was knocked completely over and we were being drug sideways. The spinnaker sheet jammed so we were not able to ease it enough for the sail to collapse. The main and mast were completely underwater, the cockpit filled with water and some into the cabin. As soon as somebody could get to the halyard and release it, the boat swung upright and into the wind. We finished the race and actually placed.
I've jib broached (knocked down) a Ultimate 20 sailboat while racing many times. The boat was new to us and we finally learned to decelerate off a plane before rounding the jib mark with the spinnaker. Took water into the cockpit and cabin. But again, with the boat intact, it did just as it's designed to and rounded up.
These are extremes and happened while we were racing. Typically you will not have water in the cockpit, much less, in the cabin.
klassi1
'77 C-22
'77 C-22
Man That Bytes!
An I just mentioned here that I've never heard of this happening,, You are officially the first! I do like that it hasn't deterred you, and that ya it probably was something you could have prevented,,, that whole links in the chain leading to an unfortunate event theory...
I was wondering if the boat had any leaks you noticed near the keel brackets, or what kinda shape the keel brackets and pin were in,, was it the original cable and bracket set up? What do you know of the history of the boat that may have led to the total failure? Curious minds want to know...
In strong winds that get waves up and the boat is riding them, I'll put a little tension on the cable to keep the keel from pivoting aft up a wave, then slamming forward as you top the wave... I've felt this before and makes me nervouos. That keel is 850lbs static, so for a slam I cant even figure the load it puts on the cable and all the hardware... and I've had to repair the damge from the PO having the cable snap and shatter the forward keel trunk.
Ok, hope this makes ya feel better, long story short
I had to get towed in off Lake Coeur D'Alene after I capsized an 18ft Peregrine that didn't have enough keel to right it... Water temp ~ 45 degrees in March. Of course I had a full genoa and full main, way too much sail up, and when wet it was too much weight. So as I got towed in I stood on top of the belly up boat, riding it like a whale holding the bowline for over a mile... It was kinda cool... Had to jump in at the dock and pull the forestay pin, lower the mast and then the boat would roll. Unfortunatly the mast wasn't designed to lower that way, the cabin roof fulcrum and levered and pulled the bottom of the compression post from the cabin floor along with all the ballast... the good part is I let my ex-wife have the boat in the divorce 
An I just mentioned here that I've never heard of this happening,, You are officially the first! I do like that it hasn't deterred you, and that ya it probably was something you could have prevented,,, that whole links in the chain leading to an unfortunate event theory...
I was wondering if the boat had any leaks you noticed near the keel brackets, or what kinda shape the keel brackets and pin were in,, was it the original cable and bracket set up? What do you know of the history of the boat that may have led to the total failure? Curious minds want to know...
In strong winds that get waves up and the boat is riding them, I'll put a little tension on the cable to keep the keel from pivoting aft up a wave, then slamming forward as you top the wave... I've felt this before and makes me nervouos. That keel is 850lbs static, so for a slam I cant even figure the load it puts on the cable and all the hardware... and I've had to repair the damge from the PO having the cable snap and shatter the forward keel trunk.
Ok, hope this makes ya feel better, long story short
I had to get towed in off Lake Coeur D'Alene after I capsized an 18ft Peregrine that didn't have enough keel to right it... Water temp ~ 45 degrees in March. Of course I had a full genoa and full main, way too much sail up, and when wet it was too much weight. So as I got towed in I stood on top of the belly up boat, riding it like a whale holding the bowline for over a mile... It was kinda cool... Had to jump in at the dock and pull the forestay pin, lower the mast and then the boat would roll. Unfortunatly the mast wasn't designed to lower that way, the cabin roof fulcrum and levered and pulled the bottom of the compression post from the cabin floor along with all the ballast... the good part is I let my ex-wife have the boat in the divorce I did notice that the brackets did leak a little and were corroded. I havent seen pictures of this assembly, but I'm assuming there is some sort of a bearing/bushing system. I would also assume that mine was frozen and that helped to shear the pin.
It is good to hear that these boats are for the most part self righting. And I think that from now on when i'm in strong winds I'll keep the cabin buttoned up for two reasons: one is so that if it were to capsize i would have more time to get it righted before the cabin filled, and two to keep my wallet and other belongings at bay....
If anyone has any leads as to where i might find a keel please let me know...
It is good to hear that these boats are for the most part self righting. And I think that from now on when i'm in strong winds I'll keep the cabin buttoned up for two reasons: one is so that if it were to capsize i would have more time to get it righted before the cabin filled, and two to keep my wallet and other belongings at bay....
If anyone has any leads as to where i might find a keel please let me know...
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CaptainScott
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WOW!
Sorry to hear about your difficulties! Very glad to hear that everyone came out!! That is a pretty rough way to learn about the physics of sailing!
As already stated, the C22 will gernerally right herself. That is as long as all her parts are there and in working order.
I'm sure the crowd here myself included would like full reports and photos of whatever you figure out as the boat gets repaired.
Best wishes and it is great to hear you are willing to continue sailing!
Scott
Sorry to hear about your difficulties! Very glad to hear that everyone came out!! That is a pretty rough way to learn about the physics of sailing!
As already stated, the C22 will gernerally right herself. That is as long as all her parts are there and in working order.
I'm sure the crowd here myself included would like full reports and photos of whatever you figure out as the boat gets repaired.
Best wishes and it is great to hear you are willing to continue sailing!
Scott
Photos of the keel braket assembly have been posted here, try a search. Also check out this website for good info on the keel brackets http://www.clearintent.net/C22/