OK, I have a very soft cabin sole, so I need to deal with it before somone goes right through it.. EE has great pics on this repair and its cause.... I have the fixed keel and in my inspections.. the bilge is HUGE very very deep and long.. So I need to figure out a much better way to get access and also clean, seal and pump out this cavornous space, which always seems filled with rain water.
I would love to know what Gus ( fixed keel) has done in this respect... the companionway ladder is in the way on top af all this..
Pumps: I had the rule 400 with 3/4" outlet.. I wa sgoing to replace it with a Rule 700 rectangle RM750 which would fit lower ( but not bottom) into the keel until I read this;; MUST READ ( good site BTW)
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bilge_pumps.htm
Now I don't know what to do and am properly scared straight.
Bilges , pumps etc.
Bilges , pumps etc.
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
Good reading, thanks.
One thing I'm struggling with at the moment is planning my bilge pump installation.
First, on a swing keel 26 the bilge is very narrow, so there's not much room for a large capacity pump.
Second, with our outboards and one, maybe two, batteries there's not much electrically capacity for running a large pump for long.
If anyone has come up with good solutions I'm all ears.
One thing I'm struggling with at the moment is planning my bilge pump installation.
First, on a swing keel 26 the bilge is very narrow, so there's not much room for a large capacity pump.
Second, with our outboards and one, maybe two, batteries there's not much electrically capacity for running a large pump for long.
If anyone has come up with good solutions I'm all ears.
Tom
1981 Endeavour 43 s/v Pearl Lee
Former 1976 Columbia Payne 9.6 s/v Gin Rhumby
Former 1979 Chrysler 26, s/v Copacetic
http://www.asswhaffleyachtclub.net
http://www.svpearllee.com
1981 Endeavour 43 s/v Pearl Lee
Former 1976 Columbia Payne 9.6 s/v Gin Rhumby
Former 1979 Chrysler 26, s/v Copacetic
http://www.asswhaffleyachtclub.net
http://www.svpearllee.com
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EmergencyExit
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:02 pm
- Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
NYC, bet when you pull out that bad sole you'll find both the bottom of the ply is bare wood, and never was glassed to protect it from water.
They make a good point about compartments holding hidden water until it overflows. A good example on the C26 would be the area under the Vberth. That could gather a lot of water before you'd notice it. That would be a good place for a large worst case pump.
Also those banquettes that house the thru hulls for heads, knot meters, transducers, etc. On EE I (carefully there is a hull near there !!) drilled 1" holes near the bottom of those at each end and midway. Hopefully if there was any leak there it would work its way to the cabin where if would be noticed and removable with the bilge pump..That would apply to that area under the head and under the companionway outside the head door as well. I suppose if I squeezed into vberth hull area I could open a similar drain hole in that bulkhead as well.
I was going to try to squeeze an automatic pump on EE, but since I wet slip EE I'd rather see water in the cabin when there is a leak - if I had a small leak thruhull leak (or a raging cabin rainfall leak) the autopump might hide that from me unless it happened to cycle while aboard. And my single deep cycle battery wouldn't save her from a major unattended hull leak anyway.
They make a good point about compartments holding hidden water until it overflows. A good example on the C26 would be the area under the Vberth. That could gather a lot of water before you'd notice it. That would be a good place for a large worst case pump.
Also those banquettes that house the thru hulls for heads, knot meters, transducers, etc. On EE I (carefully there is a hull near there !!) drilled 1" holes near the bottom of those at each end and midway. Hopefully if there was any leak there it would work its way to the cabin where if would be noticed and removable with the bilge pump..That would apply to that area under the head and under the companionway outside the head door as well. I suppose if I squeezed into vberth hull area I could open a similar drain hole in that bulkhead as well.
I was going to try to squeeze an automatic pump on EE, but since I wet slip EE I'd rather see water in the cabin when there is a leak - if I had a small leak thruhull leak (or a raging cabin rainfall leak) the autopump might hide that from me unless it happened to cycle while aboard. And my single deep cycle battery wouldn't save her from a major unattended hull leak anyway.
EE,
what di you do to replace it.... i wet slip my boat in season and then it gets rainwater in the bilge in winter.... so... I am thinking some platic lumber or teak but it seems like I should just glass coat marine plywood.... what do you think works best... must be structural enough to support the ladder and cockpit floor and people standing and jumping down into the cabin... did you make a romovable hatch to get to the bilge, and access port?
what di you do to replace it.... i wet slip my boat in season and then it gets rainwater in the bilge in winter.... so... I am thinking some platic lumber or teak but it seems like I should just glass coat marine plywood.... what do you think works best... must be structural enough to support the ladder and cockpit floor and people standing and jumping down into the cabin... did you make a romovable hatch to get to the bilge, and access port?
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
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EmergencyExit
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2954
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:02 pm
- Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
I used 3/4" ply, glassed it. The span of the piece I replaced was not very large where the ladder rests and feet plunk so that was plenty of strength but your area may be larger since you don't have the keel trunk. It was a large hatch, what you see in the pics was removable, whole thing was a hatch. Since then I've decided its just to much trouble to remove the ladder every time I want to get to the bilge, so I've recut that piece, am cutting a small rectangle out of it (between the ladder feet) to act as an inspection hatch, then will glass the larger piece in place as the original was.
If you're concerned about "jumpers" breaking it again, throw the next one that does that overboard, er, I mean add a cross brace to the ply underside as needed.
Be careful removing the old piece, as you can see from my pics it would be really easy to cut into the hull. I started in the middle with a small hole, and manually scored, cut, and pulled pieces out towards the sides !
If you're concerned about "jumpers" breaking it again, throw the next one that does that overboard, er, I mean add a cross brace to the ply underside as needed.
Be careful removing the old piece, as you can see from my pics it would be really easy to cut into the hull. I started in the middle with a small hole, and manually scored, cut, and pulled pieces out towards the sides !
EE,
I have the ladder out, will refinish it, andI will do either a ladder with a hinge at the top of the cockpit so it could lift up and clear the bilge hatch... OR do a lift up hatch as you describe OR one of those inspection ports behind ethe ladder bwetween the ladder and the little bulkhead that is the floor of the quarter port area...THanks big time for the safety tip on removal...also I checked into the RULE 3700...forget it .. it is a 1-1/2 outlet and too big for my bilge and it draws -- 12 amps! I will do the RULE 750 only draws about 3 amps but the surveyor is right ... when you really look at the specs as it would be installed in our bilges...it is really less than 1/2 that GPH .. also the specs requie a fully chared 13.6 volt battery! time to accelerae that solar panel project... it never ends and on a sailboat...it is all connected!!!
when I get everything apart i will be curious to see what condition my keel bolts are in... assuming us fixed keel'ers have keel bolts... maybe Gus knows..
I have the ladder out, will refinish it, andI will do either a ladder with a hinge at the top of the cockpit so it could lift up and clear the bilge hatch... OR do a lift up hatch as you describe OR one of those inspection ports behind ethe ladder bwetween the ladder and the little bulkhead that is the floor of the quarter port area...THanks big time for the safety tip on removal...also I checked into the RULE 3700...forget it .. it is a 1-1/2 outlet and too big for my bilge and it draws -- 12 amps! I will do the RULE 750 only draws about 3 amps but the surveyor is right ... when you really look at the specs as it would be installed in our bilges...it is really less than 1/2 that GPH .. also the specs requie a fully chared 13.6 volt battery! time to accelerae that solar panel project... it never ends and on a sailboat...it is all connected!!!
when I get everything apart i will be curious to see what condition my keel bolts are in... assuming us fixed keel'ers have keel bolts... maybe Gus knows..
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
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frankyd
bilges
hey nyc sailor,
my fixed keel bilge is very deep but it only extends a little foward of the stairs, at that point and foward the factory made a plywood bulkhead and poured in the 2500lbs of lead shot and concrete. I installed a 6" clear inspection port in the main part of the floor and behind the steps. I epoxied a automatic 750 pump on the end of a stick so that i can easily pull it up to service it. I only gain a minimal amount of bilge water after rains from some port leaks and a drip near the rudder post. a 12 volt electric pump will not save you from a large leak, but it will clean up after getting pooped or save you from a small long term leak. I am working up to compartmentalizing all the storage areas in the boat to be waterproof bulkheads so that a leak will only flood that compartment. It will mean a lot of fiberglassing and a lot of waterproof hatches but it will be better than the titanic
my fixed keel bilge is very deep but it only extends a little foward of the stairs, at that point and foward the factory made a plywood bulkhead and poured in the 2500lbs of lead shot and concrete. I installed a 6" clear inspection port in the main part of the floor and behind the steps. I epoxied a automatic 750 pump on the end of a stick so that i can easily pull it up to service it. I only gain a minimal amount of bilge water after rains from some port leaks and a drip near the rudder post. a 12 volt electric pump will not save you from a large leak, but it will clean up after getting pooped or save you from a small long term leak. I am working up to compartmentalizing all the storage areas in the boat to be waterproof bulkheads so that a leak will only flood that compartment. It will mean a lot of fiberglassing and a lot of waterproof hatches but it will be better than the titanic
Frank,
THANKS! I will tackle this job in a few weeks....I like the waterproofing idea but it sure sounds like a big expensive job. each storage compartment would need a waterproof hatch...and water does have some pressure to it.... but then again... we really only would have 6 compartments to deal with... not bad aat all certainly makes it one damn safe bluewater boat....the J-30 fleet would regularly sail to bermuda... i would think the fixed keel C-26 with the chainplates reinforced and your waterproofing, and a sliding OB mount, makes one strong bluewater boat.... keep me posted and pics please
If I read your post correctly, does that mean we don't havekeel bolts to mind... that they are somehow buried in the concrete, or that we don't have a seperate iron keel but we have a molded glass keel filled with leadshot and concrete? I have never seen keel cracks in my hull, even hairline one which always amazed me so maybe we don't actually have a seperate keel ( although it was most typical for production boats of that era to have a seperate iron keel bolted up to the hull stub and done.
THANKS! I will tackle this job in a few weeks....I like the waterproofing idea but it sure sounds like a big expensive job. each storage compartment would need a waterproof hatch...and water does have some pressure to it.... but then again... we really only would have 6 compartments to deal with... not bad aat all certainly makes it one damn safe bluewater boat....the J-30 fleet would regularly sail to bermuda... i would think the fixed keel C-26 with the chainplates reinforced and your waterproofing, and a sliding OB mount, makes one strong bluewater boat.... keep me posted and pics please
If I read your post correctly, does that mean we don't havekeel bolts to mind... that they are somehow buried in the concrete, or that we don't have a seperate iron keel but we have a molded glass keel filled with leadshot and concrete? I have never seen keel cracks in my hull, even hairline one which always amazed me so maybe we don't actually have a seperate keel ( although it was most typical for production boats of that era to have a seperate iron keel bolted up to the hull stub and done.
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343