C22 - First Sailboat

Cap'n Scott · Post by **Cap'n Scott** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:16 pm

After 10+ years of dreaming of sailing I pulled the trigger on a '76 C22 a few weeks ago - my first boat! She's sitting in the driveway now, with all her wooden parts in the basement accumulating layers of varnish. I've replaced the bilge pump, started filling various craze-cracks on the deck, and figured out what that strange hole is on the top of the transom (where a stern light used to be). After several tests with the garden hose I seem to have a leak in the bilge - water is getting from there into the keel trunk and out the bottom of the keel hinge access cover and into the cabin. Any thoughts on what to do?

Cheers!

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:48 pm

Huggies!

Nope, just teasing! I'll leave that one up to the more advanced folk on board. Speaking of on-board, welcome! Shoot us some shots, cuz we love 'em!

Glad to have you with us!

By the way, this is my first sailboat as well!

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:09 pm

Well, let me be the first to welcome you!
Congratulations on the new sailboat!

You'll want to check that keel pin area and make sure all is well!
IF you are curious as to what it could and should look like check my keel pin repair page in my signature! It will give you an idea as to what you may be in for!

Again, WELCOME!

Scott

PS: expect some confusion for other members! LOL!
heh heh!!!

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:34 pm

Welcome from Denver as well! Great Scott, there's two of them!

I agree, you'll want to check your keel pin area. There should be a black cap on the port side of the sole, just forward of the dinette area, and another inside the storage area under the forward dinette seat.

You might do a search under keel pin, but be aware we talk about these pins a lot!!!. I dropped my keel last summer, removed the brackets and re-installed with sealer. Before I did it, it was intimidating. Now that I've done it I'm sure I would be able to do it again.

Best to you!

Alanhod · Post by **Alanhod** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:21 am

Welcome Aboard Cap'n Scott,

You have found the right place. We Speak Chrysler sailboat almost fluently here.

Some more then others. I will point to the others as speaking it more fluently then myself.

Yup, I am concern with those above who say you may have a keel pin issue going on here. That pivot point on the keel in the trunk should NOT have any water coming in or going out. Should be water tight. Now Captain Scott a.k.a. 69shark, listed above, let me assist to the best of my abilities on his keel pin job. Okay, I took some photographs.

Ah yes and a little of the heavy advising which I hope did not mess anything up or slow him down too much. Here's his web site with the photo's http://captainscottsailing.com/ , then click on "Lady Jo", then click on "Keel Pin Repair What we did."

Now as for where that water is coming from. Could be a lot of places but I'm going to bet on a window leaking. Why would I think this you might ask. Well I'll tell you why. Because that's how water is getting into my keel trunk then seeping out the Black rubber cover out onto my Cabin Deck. I live near Seattle and yes it rains a lot. A lot more then normal this year. This year my Starboard Port Windows started leaking. A little water dripping down the inside of the windows but not a flood.

I checked my boat after a good week of downpours and I had like 2" of water on my cabin deck. I would pump it out and the water would come rushing back in from under the black rubber boot covering the Keel pin mount. So I popped off the black rubber boot covering the Keel pin mount and pumped out like 5 gallons of water from between the liner and the hull. So then I tested my theory of the window being the cause. I put a bucket under the window giving me issues to catch all the water it dripped, then I left it for another good week of downpour. Sure enough, I had about 1 cup of water in my bucket and no other water damage on my paper towels I laid under and around the bucket. And you guessed it I had a Keel Trunk full of about 5 gallons of water which I pumped out again. The water is coming in the window leak and dripping/pouring down between the liner and the hull.

So top of my To-Do List, go over to Captain Scotts house, (Not Cap'n Scott) and have him show me how to re-seat the windows properly as he has a leaking window this year too on His C-22.

And yes, I predict there will be confusion with Cap'n Scott and Captain Scott. So don't you worry if I start telling a good Captain Scott Story, because that's not you Cap'n Scott.

So where do you hale from Cap'n Scott? I hope it's the Pacific Northwest, I'd love to go sailing with Cap'n Scott and Captain Scott, each of us in our own restored C-22.

Then again if your on the East Coast then we will have Captain/Cap'n Scott coverage coast to coast.

Thanks
Alan

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:10 am

Welcome aboard Scott and as Alan said we all speak Chrysler here and we are like family and another Chrysler in the east. Again welcome to the Chrysler family you have to excuse me but all my transportation vehicles are Chrysler prod. except for the Boston Whaler which has sailing roots(2 Dodge's and the C-26)

Traveler · Post by **Traveler** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:14 pm

Hey Scott,

Congrats on 'pulling the trigger' on a fantastic sailboat. Although I have a lot of boats, only one other is a sailboat and it is 13ft. So when i was able to find the 22 I also jumped on it. It is a fun and trustworthy sailboat capable of providing lots of fun.

I don't have much advice on the leak except to suspect the portholes. They are apparently a weak spot on the 22 and leak a bunch. Do you see any signs of water or stain near any of them? Believe it---water can get from there to the cabin floor, etc.

You should get a bunch of good answers on this site if you wait a day or two. Lots of knowledgeable and friendly seamen stop by and keep the site popping. Great to have another member.

Regards, Jeff

Cap'n Scott · Post by **Cap'n Scott** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:02 pm

Hello All,

Sorry about the "Cap'n Scott" thing - I didn't realize there was another one already out there. Maybe a little confusion is a good thing; keep everyone on their toes.

Many thanks for the encouraging words. And thanks also to the original Captain Scott (not that mangy interloper...) for the excellent photo essay on changing the hinge pin. It doesn't really look easy, but with so many good pictures it sure makes it easier! Fortunately I can say with some confidence that's not my problem because I haven't yet put her in the water. What I did do was put a garden hose into the bilge area, turn it on, and watched shortly thereafter as a trickle of water ran out from under the black rubber hinge access cover and pooled in the crook of the v-berth, which tells me that somehow water is getting from the bilge cavity into the keel trunk and then forward. I'm wondering 1) are those two cavities, bilge and trunk, supposed to be connected, and if not 2) anyone have any good ideas how to seal the bilge area? Some kind of spray sealer?

Raining like crazy here on Cape Cod today. Once it dries out a bit I'll take and post some pictures. But until then I think I'll head down to the basement and put another coat of varnish on those hatch covers.

Cheers all!

Banshi · Post by **Banshi** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:30 pm

Welcome,

I'll take a shot at it. First, there was not originally a "bilge" area on the 22 although I have created one of sorts on mine. There are small passages between the storage compartments though and they are open to the small gap between the inner and outer hulls, so water could find it's way around to the area you are speaking of depending on what you are referring to as a bilge. Hope this helps.

Jmckamey · Post by **Jmckamey** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:33 pm

First off, welcome,
On th C22 the interior is a linner that is set into place before the top deck is set onto the hull. In some of the voids of the cabin liner is flotation foam, i e, under the V birth and along the starboard settee, that's what the chrome wilkie buttons are all about. IMHO the water you are seeing is normal because it is running between the linner and the hull. Now, remember the foam flotation I mentioned? There are a couple of ongoing threads on the subject of the before mentioned foam being saturated with water. Three guess's on what you could be doing by filling your hull with water.

Cap'n Scott · Post by **Cap'n Scott** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:38 pm

Ah! That makes a little more sense. The "bilge" area I'm speaking of is the storage compartment on the port side of the companionway. The previous owner(s) had screwed a small electric bilge pump to the floor in there.

John K · Post by **John K** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:39 pm

Two Captain Scotts? I don't know what to do lol. Welcome!

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:05 pm

We now have an east and west coast captain Scott.

Bhacurly · Post by **Bhacurly** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:59 am

Welcome Scott!

My "bilge" is bone dry, and yours should be also. Really, IMHO, the only boats that should have any water below are inboards with a lil leak at the prop shaft bushing... everything else should be sealed

That being said,,, I have a leak too!! Arrgh, driving me nuts... My bilge is bone dry, but the cabin sole had about 8oz's water yesterday, I believe from the stern lazerette somewhere... I thought I had it repaired and now with it on the water it will probably be a pain all season.....

parared · Post by **parared** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:18 am

Definition time! ( Oh, and welcome ) The 'cabin sole' is where my feet are when I'm walking inside my c22, right? The lowest point inside, with the keel hinge begin a plate to port. Where is the bilge on a c22? I also had a little water inside, and when I clear it a little more leaks back out of a 1cm circle, right on the floor, as far forward as you can get in the sole.

( And welcome, BTW )

John K · Post by **John K** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:25 am

Bhacurly wrote:Welcome Scott!

My "bilge" is bone dry, and yours should be also. Really, IMHO, the only boats that should have any water below are inboards with a lil leak at the prop shaft bushing... everything else should be sealed

That being said,,, I have a leak too!! Arrgh, driving me nuts... My bilge is bone dry, but the cabin sole had about 8oz's water yesterday, I believe from the stern lazerette somewhere... I thought I had it repaired and now with it on the water it will probably be a pain all season.....

I usually have a few ounces after a good rain. It comes in through the companionway hatch boards on mine (it actually drips down the aluminum rails that the boards slide into). No big deal for me.

Banshi · Post by **Banshi** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:03 pm

That being said,,, I have a leak too!! Arrgh, driving me nuts...

Not knowing exactly when it is coming in you should check and make sure the thru hull sink valve is not partially open. On a port tack water can run back up the hose then underneath the cushions to the rear of the boat where it will eventually finds it's way back into the main cabin sole area...............ask me how I know.......................

She's been dry as a bone ever since.

Bhacurly · Post by **Bhacurly** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:09 pm

Banshi & John,

Good points! Not the one Banshi is referring too...

I should hang out in the cabin during a storm and look for hatch leaks...

But I can see a small trickle when I look under the cockpit floor, aft of the rudder hose. It pools at a depression made where the liner is glassed into the hull, under the aft lazarette. From there it seems to trickle down the cabin floor and makes it's little puddle from where I step in to the keel pin inspection port .

Not a big deal really, but I didn't notice it

Still in my Birkenstocks, I stepped in and then I had a cold n wet foot, then to dry it up I got cold hands. Water temp is 40', the wind was 20mph, air temp 40. I just got to the boat and had one wet sock an cold foot and two froze hands! Arrrrrr!

I be more careful next time...

mariner · Post by **mariner** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:15 pm

John K wrote:
Bhacurly wrote:Welcome Scott!

My "bilge" is bone dry, and yours should be also. Really, IMHO, the only boats that should have any water below are inboards with a lil leak at the prop shaft bushing... everything else should be sealed

That being said,,, I have a leak too!! Arrgh, driving me nuts... My bilge is bone dry, but the cabin sole had about 8oz's water yesterday, I believe from the stern lazerette somewhere... I thought I had it repaired and now with it on the water it will probably be a pain all season.....
I usually have a few ounces after a good rain. It comes in through the companionway hatch boards on mine (it actually drips down the aluminum rails that the boards slide into). No big deal for me.

I used to have water in the main cabin due to hatch leaks with blowing rain, I went to home despot and purchased a section of foam water pipe insulation (the kind that has a slit along the length of it) I cut it to the width of the top hatch board and placed on top, kind of makeshift gasket, and no more water on the floor.

mariner · Post by **mariner** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:22 pm

Also forgot, sometimes I get a drip or two from the windows, I leave a dry sponge on the bench or on the shelf and that usually prevents any running water on the cabin floor, window repair is slated for fall...

Alanhod · Post by **Alanhod** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:57 pm

mariner wrote:I used to have water in the main cabin due to hatch leaks with blowing rain, I went to home despot and purchased a section of foam water pipe insulation (the kind that has a slit along the length of it) I cut it to the width of the top hatch board and placed on top, kind of makeshift gasket, and no more water on the floor.

Well now, that is a very cool tip Mariner!

I will be implementing that on my next visit to Lowe's or Home Depot.

Thanks
Alan

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:22 pm

Hey Mariner-

Not sure if that was intentional, a typo, or a Freudian slip--but sometimes I think "Home Despot" sums it up!

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:06 pm

When I go back to work I will ask them about the spelling error on all the stores.

mcrandall · Post by **mcrandall** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:45 pm

D'oh!!!

New I was gonna squeeze somebodies shoes with that comment!

I love that place! Really, I do! They send out an APB on me if I'm not in there once a week thinking I must have fallen down and bumped my head.

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:53 am

I am a department supervisor for them.